Supreme Court rules for coach whose prayers on football field raised questions about church-state se

Well the Supreme, Supreme Court will get to this case eventually, but it might be a number of years since he seems like he is fairly young.

 

As another poster pointed out, the location is less important than the timing. If the coach huddled his players up, told them "good game, I'm proud of you all, etc." and then dismissed them, but added that he was going to midfield/endzone/wherever to say a quick prayer of thanks to God, and that anyone interested could join him, that to me is entirely different than calling all players together to take part in his prayer before dismissing them, and I would be supporting his case if he'd been fired for that.

Have you ever seen a student athlete walk away from a coach before he excused them?

 

It would not have been an issue if it was player led and voluntary. Correct.

 

It is a school event and the coach is a school employee.

Not different at all.

If this was a player led activity I'd be 100% arguing that it was protected.

If it is a government employee led activity it is 100% not allowed under the constitution.

Can't be any clearer than that, and for the SC to see it any other way is just proof they are being led by partisans who do not agree with separation of church and state.

 

So in the interest of a valid solution, do you think most opposing him would be OK if he dismissed the players first?

If their claim is the players felt coercion, would that not still exist?

If I were him, I would make a clear statement that this is voluntary and no one will be judged or rewarded based on participation and go from there.

But in my opinion he isnt required to do that to be within his rights. I just think it would be the smart thing to do going forward.

 

Totally agree. If he said that it changes my opinion of his position.

 

Probably depends on which side of the canyon you are looking from.

 

I think that fewer people would be opposed to what he was doing if he had continued to comply with the district's guidelines when they asked him to do exactly that.

Obviously the students didn't feel coercion when he did it that way because they didn't stay for his prayers.

Again, the district gave him guidance on how to do this in a constitutional way, and he didn't like the results, so he went back to doing it the unconstitutional way.

 

Nobody tried to silence his faith. He was free to express it, even after the football game. It was a hyperbolic expression you used from your "side of the canyon."

 

Animal sacrifice violates existing cruelty law. I already covered that I believe Christians should honor the law. I am saying I dont believe he broke the law.

 

But from my side of the canyon any silencing of his speech is a violation of 1A.

Thats the beauty of this country, we can debate from different sides. Then have a beer in the valley and lament the Lightning's sad game six ending.

 

I'm actually ok with this argument. If I were him going forward, this is exactly what I would do. I am just not sure it would have been viewed as differently as you are willing to view it i think many would take issue with ot just because he is a public school employee on public school grounds at a public school gathering.

I think his winning this case was important to set the standard straight.

I do think he should handle it as you state here though going forward.

 

But the constitutionality isnt as cut and dry as you are making it. (And remember, I am some one who has taken more liberal positions on the interpretation of the constitution at times. (Gun control, gay marriage etc).

I don't see what he did as unconstitutional.

 

I think he did things the way he did for a reason, especially after being asked to change the tradition and then reverting back to it. That seems to indicate that his motives were to make a spectacle of it. Just like his social media posts kneeling as though in prayer outside the SC and other places.

IMO, he's one of the hypocrites that Jesus warns of when instructing how not to pray.

To clarify, just because he's likely a hypocrite isn't reason to violate a Constitutional right. But not dismissing his players before inviting them to pray with him is the crux of why I think his arguments are in bad faith, as our the comments by Gorsuch on this case. They both strike me as prime examples of John 16:3, if I'm honest.

 

I think thats fair. The scriptures do talk of that. (Praying on the street corner as opposed to ones private closet) Thats the reason I said I would not do it that way. I am speaking purely from a constitutional rights perspective.

 

As are us on the other side of this argument, and our point is that this coach's actions and how he engaged with his players regarding this prayer condition indicate that they felt pressured to attend his 50-yard line prayers, made more clear by the fact that they clearly did not feel pressured to attend for the brief time that he complied with what was asked of him because they did not join him.

And a government-employed authority figure applying direct or indirect pressure for minors (under his care in his official job) to attend his very public prayers before dismissing them should violate the Establishment Clause, no matter what lies this kangaroo Supreme Court fabricated to get to their desired legal verdict.

 

And from all my interactions with you on this board, I have no doubt that you would have done things in an appropriate way if you were in his position. As a good man and good Christian, I imagine you would not have found much difficulty complying with the school's requirements while still modeling Christianity for the football team.

 

Yeah, I feel like half the time I go to mass there's something about Matthew 6

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
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But I've met very few Christians who actually take the lessons they teach at church to heart.

 

There's also a distinct call for Christians to minister and spread the gospel, and so I suspect for many, the challenge is in some inherent friction between spreading the Word and practicing one's Christian faith quietly as Jesus calls them to do.

Undoubtedly many hypocrites also attend church regularly, but I think, or at least hope, that they're a smaller percentage than those trying to balance these two aspects.

 

Thank you I like to think so, but had they told me no, my stubborn side might pop out.