Supreme Court rejects affirmative action at colleges, says schools can’t consider race in admission

My own source directly supports what I said. In fact, the proportions directly undermine your argument. If those were the only four racial classifications, that would mean, assuming that the various races with elite academic score are admitted proportionally, that roughly 6% of Black applicants would get in.

Oh look, more nonsense pulled directly out of your ass. Since I'm not allowed to say what this is, I'll simply let others come to the obvious conclusion.

L-O-L. I liked how you tried to reframe the argument to the issue being discrimination when our actual argument was over your baseless claim that Harvard's Black population would drop to less than 1%, and potentially go to 0, if Harvard stopped using race. I can only assume when I posted evidence that directly refuted your claims, you realized that you needed to erect a straw man to avoid having to dine on some crow.

 

It's not out of "my ass." Read the Supreme Court opinion. The Asian plaintiffs had perfect SAT scores. How many black admitted students had that or anywhere near that? And if Harvard is denying Asians with perfect SAT how many Black applicants do you think would get in if they were classified as White or Asian?

Rather than accusing me of making up data why not just ask me where I got it? And if needed, I'll track down the actual SAT numbers and show you that you are totally wrong. Is that what you want or are you regurgitate more nonsense? It's not some big secret.

My claim was far from baseless. And you only refuted your own claim, you can't make this up.

I said under race neutral criteria not under Harvard's holistic admissions process--which is not race-neutral, and that comment was from the Judge who upheld that same process.

What straw man? What are you even talking about? Can someone else explain to me what Gator Lawyer is even talking about? Is this what lawyers generally do when they have nothing to say?

 

Again, what don't you understand about what posted? This can be a conversation rather than a shit show. But Gator Lawyer isn't adult enough for that.

 

Point of reference
Gator Lawyer is who you are debating/arguing with
UFlawyer is a whole different cat..err ..gator

 

Taken thanks! I'll edit to avoid any confusion.

 

Funny that you just assumed it was referring to you.

In any event, I'm Latino, so your language legerdemain is just too complex for me to follow. I think UF Lawyer may also be intimidated by your brilliance.

 

I'm just curious what you disagree with. I'm pretty sure the last post was a shot at me. And I'm far from brilliant. This is pretty basic stuff.

 

This is an interesting statement, given your assertion in another thread . . .

Sure seems like you have argued on behalf of their legitimacy.

 

I have. But that's not what I'm arguing here. I'm taking it as a given that SAT's are, generally, an important criteria used in admissions decision.

 

Well
I have heard of moving the goalposts but this seems like the game changed from football to badminton. Good luck keeping up if the topic, point of the argument is going to continue being switched around.

 

You're now arguing that the Supreme Court held or found that if Harvard didn't use race as a factor, that the Black population at the school would be less than 1% or 0%? Feel free to cite that part of the opinion. I'll wait.

Oh yes, please do show us the data that proves that Harvard's Black population would be less than 1% if the school did not consider race.

L-O-L. The judge explicitly found that with a race-neutral admissions process, Harvard's Black population would drop from 14% to 6%. After removing ALDCs (which includes athletes), it would drop to 5%. You claimed it would be less than 1% and then claimed it would be near or at zero if they focused on academics. Those are the claims I challenged. Bring forth your evidence.

 

Yes, but race neutral criteria doesn't equate to standardized testing becoming the sole or most important criteria, I believe that's where both your and the District Court Judge's biases come into play as relates to the assumption that the percentage of Black students admitted would greatly plummet or disappear in a race neutral situation (I haven't read the full exchange between you two so I may have missed a few points, full disclosure).

And an aside to add some perspective here: clearly given the complete over-indexing of applicants as relates to their representation in society, for Asian Americans Harvard (and the like) are the holy grail. The best of the best of that group applies to Harvard in droves. For the Black elite, there is an entirely different option in the form of HBCUs, many of which these folks' families have attended for generations. Some, though certainly not all, of the best of Black folks' kids apply exclusively to these schools, creating HBCU legacies the same as Harvard has legacies.

A few high profile examples? Both Denzel Washington and Spike Lees' kids attended HBCU's for undergrad. Hell, even Angelina Jolie's oldest daughter (adopted from Ethiopia) attends an HBCU. There are many other high level (because wealth and Ivy's go hand in hand for a host of reasons) but much lower profile (Business and STEM sector) families that don't bother with Ivy's at all. So while Harvard may be (arguably) the best university in all the land, we shouldn't assume that its applicant pool includes the totality of the best students from all ethnic groups (though again, from a pure number's standpoint, that certainly seems the case for Asian Americans).

We also shouldn't conclude that the Black folks who are at Ivy's aren't there on their own merits.

 

To be clear, the district judge didn't rule that they would disappear. Based on expert testimony, he found that the number would drop from 14% to 6% if Harvard removed race from their criteria. Of course, that doesn't mean it'll actually happen, as Harvard is free to replace race with other race-neutral criteria, like socioeconomic diversity.

The person who claimed that Black students admitted would be close to 0% is the poster you quoted, and I pushed back hard on his baseless claims because the expert reports and court findings do not remotely support it.

Agreed. And I've gone on record before that I don't think standardized test scores offer some definitive determination of merit. Plus, the difference between a 1410 and a 1450 really isn't much. We're talking about choosing between a lot of people with highly impressive credentials. It's silly to me how worked up some folks get over these minuscule differences.

 

latergatorgk sends his regrets as he is no longer able to participate in the discussion.

 

I wonder which former poster that was.

 

posters

 

Was thinking the same.

 

Multiple ones? Was that account one of those Russian nesting dolls of former posters? LOL.

 

If I may respond this one time.

I have posted under about a dozen (or more) different screen names (usually similar in name). None have ever been banned as far as I'm aware (except this one). And I have a sort of weird reason for doing so that isn't important to address.

Anyway, now that I'm finally banned I shall bid you, goodbye forever.