They also probably wouldn’t have known about the internal dissension over the safety of the sub, might not have even known about the refusal to get it certified etc. which is why I think the waiver will end up being meaningless in court if it comes to it.
Well honestly talking about it or making jokes to outsiders isn't really normal either. If you see me at the gym im not going to talk about the guy that jumped off a bridge last week or the several other cardiac arrests ive ran this past week. It's actually sort of frustrating to hear people in otherwise normal professions pass judgment on people who deal with death, illness, filth and other unsavory aspects of life as a routine line of work. It's a bizzaro world and I've stated before that for me personally I'd gladly go back to being ignorant to the things we deal with on a daily basis.
One of the blog posts I’ve seen (maybe from the CBS Sunday Morning crew) noted that one of the first paragraphs of the waiver is: “This experimental vessel has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, emotional trauma, or death.”
The sub actually did make that dive on previous occasions. The issue is likely wear and tear, a design doomed to fail over time at that level of pressure. Along those lines nobody knew the exact failure point (which is why they say it’s an “inappropriate” material), and they probably weren’t doing the type of inspections necessary prior to each dive (assuming any tests are even possible, it might be a microscopic level type deal to see the fissures forming in carbon fiber layers, and for a guy obviously cutting corners you can assume they probably didn’t even consider that wear and tear aspect). But we don’t actually know the material was the true cause, it could have been the “shape” of the sub or a seam somewhere around the propulsion system or the endcaps. Basically any small leak would be instant implosion at that depth.
But even with that, it doesn’t tell them how little testing was done, along with the fact that it was only thought to be good at something like half the depth they were regularly taking it. Just saying the larger idea of how much doubt or lack of diligence on it wasn't known until after the accident.
Do you know who has jurisdiction over the waiver? I don't, but I imagine that what ever law governs the waiver will have a lot more say about whether the waiver will hold or not, than any parole evidence or back ground factual matters that preceded its execution.
It tells them no regulated testing was done--it's 'experimental'. The waiver = *you agree to participate in the 'experimental' aspect of the vessel*. <--(to be clear, this is my inference/characterization, not what was actually in the waiver). What's more, if you want to get into extrinsic facts, there was a couple that was ready to go--and bowed out, upon reading that very waiver.
Yeah, not a lawyer so others will know more than I. But basic common sense says that if you don’t do basic due diligence to protect those in your care, a waiver isn’t gonna save you. It goes well beyond the idea of “experimental”. It wasn’t even tested for that depth. We will see though.
Well, the "we" in "we will see through it", is the big question. e.g.--same facts under US law, and you'd have a helluva lot better chance under Califorina law, than under Deleware law.
Fwiw, I think the company is based in Washington state (unless they have a “on paper only” set up somewhere else). Would assume that’s where it would be filed. Even if they got Boston because that’s the closest US city and where the coast guard effort was from, not much better.
Most waivers signed prior to an incident are barely enforceable actually, and according to this guy, given all the safety issues and whistleblowing, there's a good case for liability here. What happens now that the Titanic submersible search has ended in tragedy
Stockton Rush is worth $25M according to the interwebz. It would be great if that could be taken from his family somehow.
The problem is, are there actually any assets to recover? Considering this guys cost cutting and frugal nature, it doesn’t imply the company was exactly flush with cash. I’ve seen articles suggesting the company raised about $20 million as of 2020. But how much of that is left today is anybody’s guess. I would guess the vast majority went into the sub and into salaries. The CEO had a modest net worth, can they target liability against him for his personal malfeasance and sue his estate? Seems pretty obvious he’s mostly the one to blame, but actually recovering is another matter. In actuality all these people were rich, so with the guy deceased there may be no point in suing. If the CEO wasn’t on the sub himself, arguably in addition to civil liability he should be facing criminal charges given the shortcuts and self-indicting words on safety.
Meh, it’s not his families fault. Id agree if he got “regular” people killed they should want to recover, but the sub passengers were far wealthier than the sub owner, 2 billionaires, the son of the billionare. Not sure about the French diver. So with the CEO’s passing, it would almost just be vindictive to go after the estate. JIMHO. If he’d been safely on the surface ship, then I’d say lock his ass in jail for manslaughter.
By the way, there was a US man and son who were thinking about going. They backed out over safety concerns, and Rush tried to get them to come back, he offered them a $100k discount and told them it was as safe as crossing the street. Dude was either a complete huckster or in complete denial. Or both.
It’s money he earned. Seems like fair game to me. Give it to the coast guard and anyone else who participated in the search and rescue efforts. There should be some sort of punitive consequences for this if for no other reason than to send a clear message to anyone else doing stupid extreme tourism like this.
My guess is an arrogant smartest guy in the room type given the way he scoffed at safety measures as waste.
Question for the better informed; am I correct in assuming the implosion was instantaneous? As in, over and done before they knew what was happening? I imagine so, but looking for clarification. Hoping that none aboard had time to panic and/or suffer - as would have been the alternative scenario of slowly running out of air and waiting to die - that would have been absolutely terrifying.
With all of the bad crap those guys see on a regular basis, I would imagine you almost HAVE to laugh at some of the stuff or else they would probably go insane...
