Stacey Abrams...lower than dirt

false dichotomy

 

Keep reading Davis...The point is, the sound isnt manufactured at all according to UF, Hopkins, NYU, NHS, Cleveland Clinic, Planned Parenthood etc.

They all explicitly call it a heartbeat. If thats the case than the heartbeat bills have some room in the discussion. The science and doctors have been calling this a heartbeat.

Her whole premise is based on it not being a heartbeat when all these major institutions claim it is.

But watch them all change their terminology now based on politics. This will be very interesting.

 

Doctors talk to lay people in terms they can understand. OB/GYNs especially talk to people in language that sparks joy.

It isn't technically correct, but no one is harmed when doctors tell expectant parents they can hear the heart beating.

The harm comes in when those who want to deny choice to others, use incorrect terminology that is emotionally-laden to prevent women and their doctors from making decisions that are best for the women.

 

You're pulling a bunch of sources, none of which contradict what Abrams said.

 

Not accurate

 

Phil. Those sites, the NHS etc are not just some OB talking to a patient.

Look at how they word it. It's clear as day

 

Do UF, Johns Hopkins, etc. address the notion of a manufactured sound?

 

What? She said it verbatim: “There is no such thing as a heartbeat at six weeks,” Abrams claimed during an event at the Ray Charles Performing Arts Center in Atlanta on Tuesday

 

I gave you the links.

 

From the UF health website:
Your doctor or midwife will listen for your baby's heartbeat, but may not be able to hear it. Most often, the heartbeat cannot be heard or seen on ultrasound until at least 6 to 7 weeks.
https://ufhealth.org/prenatal-care-your-first-trimesterGiess

 

Gotcha - my bad. I was thinking about the manufactured sound claim.

 

Thanks man. Thats what everyone is glossing over. She based her argument on her assertion that there is no heartbeat and THEN said 8tvis just manufactured.

Her entire foundation is wrong.
Hopkins says there is a 65 bpm rate at 4 weeks.

UF clearly says 6 weeks.

 

What do you mean by actively? If there’s no brain activity it means they can’t feed or intake water on their own and will die in less than a week. I think it would be more humane to actively stop their organs rather than letting the body dehydrate and starve. And if they require a ventilator that is more abrupt.

A developed heart has it’s final structure. Taking your argument a simple embryo is the same as every fully developed body structure which clearly isn’t true and no one, not even “pro-lifers” treat it that way.

You can play the “gotcha” game and twist her meaning. Fine, have at it. I’m not going to argue with you on this when there isn’t even alignment amongst the professionals that it constitutes a heartbeat. Her point still stands. ‘Heartbeat bills’: Is there a fetal heartbeat at six weeks of pregnancy?

 

Good god. Still, this? It is a dumb statement whether there is or is not a heartbeat at 6 weeks. I can't even believe that is the discussion. It's like switches in people's brains are controlled by the letters D & R.

On this very board, I still hear people giving Trump crap for the "I am the chosen one" comment as if it had anything to do with god, etc. It was actually a clever & appropriate line given the context. I guess that's how the ole R/D switch works.

 

I believe in letting someone die in that state. Unplug them etc. Let nature do its thing. However, It is illegal to artificially terminate their life because of brain activity through external means. (Euthanasia).

 

Thanks - my Q is specific to the claim that there is a manufactured sound. That does not appear to be addressed from this quote. If Abrams is correct re: The manufactured sound, there is a point to be made about people bending the truth to support their views on abortion.
The notion that Abrams is "dumb" was also a central point of the OP, which is verifiably false. I don't think you argued this, but it's worth addressing. With this, I'll bow out of the discussion.

 

It appears that some posters on this thread don't know IQ from dirt.

 

This discussion is about as stupid as the discussion over whether we still have a pandemic or whether it’s now an endemic. It’s a worthless discussion started by people who want to stir things up. Here’s what I think. If your 11-year old daughter or granddaughter gets impregnated by her boyfriend, and you don’t believe in abortions or don’t believe in abortions after 6 weeks, then let her have the baby. If, instead, it’s your next door neighbor’s 11-year old daughter or granddaughter who is pregnant, stay out of their business, and they can decide what to do.

 

The NHS page you linked is titled "You and your baby". Who do you think they are addressing the information to?

 

That's an interesting ethical/legal/philosophical discussion. She was not "brain-dead" so little different but my grandmother had Hospice at her house when she was dying in her bed. The nurse asked if everyone who was going to make it there was there and then administered what I think was morphine. I've read that they say the morphine doesn't actually cause death, but it sure seemed that way to me. IF it did cause or sped up her death, I was frankly fine with it given the circumstances and would want that for myself.