SCOTUS kills Biden's student loan/debt relief plan...

Now add in books and fees, and room and board. The expensive part of college is staying alive, and the opportunity cost of the time you spend in class and studying.

 

Disagree. While nominees for the Supreme may not usually be completely forthcoming I do not believe that in the past they have blatantly lied to the extent that Trump's three nominees did during their confirmation hearings. Maybe it's just me but I have little doubt that Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Coney Barrett were recommended to Trump by the Federalist Society in no small part because they intended to overturn Roe v. Wade at their first opportunity even though they said either during their hearings or through one on one meetings with Senators that they would respect precedent.

 

Congrats on your daughter's achievements! Just checking the math, though. Let's say your COA was 10k back in '91. Are you saying it costs your daughter 150k now or even 100k with the scholarship?

 

My COA was about $2K. Tuition plus dorm room was $1,200 a semester. I remember because I wrote the check. First check every over $1k I ever wrote. Books were about $200 and food for a semester around $400.

We're looking at taking out a loan for about $25k a semester. Probably won't spend it all, but rather be safe. Tuition is now $12k a semester, and room is also expensive. The scholarship takes about $5k from off tuition.

My daughter loves Tucson and UA, but she really loves Seattle and U Washington. That was her dream. But she told us she couldn't see spending 3X or 4X more for an education that isn't better, and a school that isn't 3X better. We told her if she really wanted UW, we'd make it work. But she inherited my pragmatic side.

 

According to the UA website, COA living on campus is 33,000 a year( 2 semesters) before any aid.
The state offers good grade scholarships up to 12,000.for a 4.0 gpa
Pell grant for 23-24 max out at 7300

So say you get 8000 for grades
Qualify for 3500 in pell grant
And work a job at 1,000 a month.(8000 for 2 semesters)
Total 19500 is covered before any loans.

You would need to get a loan for 13,500 per year
Now say the parents can afford 500 a month cash(4000 2 semesters)

Now total cost before loans 9500

9500 x 4 years = 38,000 in loans.

 

COA = cost of attendance. Rm + board + books + fees. No way you were living on less than 8k - 10k/year. COA for in-staters is now $30 - $33k.
Cost: Incoming First-Year and Transfer | Office of Scholarships & Financial Aid

I don't mean to quibble, but no way does COA get to 15x what you experienced.

 

Good info. Those are pretty close to optimal circumstances (most will not be eligible for Pell Grants), though, and 38k is still a good bit of debt for a four yr degree.

 

It's a car loan that can be paid off in 6 yrs

Plus it blows my mind when you here some are 6 figures in debt for an undergrad degree.

 

The most liberal SCOTUS (the one in the 1960s and 70s) was dominated by Republicans, and one of the most conservative justices on those Courts was Byron White, a Democratic appointee. If you go back just 20 years, SCOTUS was 7-2 R appointees, but Stevens and Souter tended to vote with the D appointees and O'Connor tended to compromise and swing.

In other words, the judges weren't aligning neatly based on party affiliation. They had ideologies that were independent of the party appointing them. SCOTUS was ideological, but it wasn't purely partisan. (Of course, O'Connor voted on partisan grounds with four other Republicans in Bush v. Gore, showing that they could certainly be partisan when motivated by selfish considerations.) That's not true today.

 

It may be equivalent to a car loan, yes but we are talking about early career people. 38k borrowed at 4.99 interest (current SL rate) = 402.86/month. Add rent (1k+ because no young people can purchase), car loan, insurance, food, fun and it gets pretty hard just to make the minimum SL payment. Anyone who can afford to pay extra principle in the years following graduation is making really good $ or getting parental assistance.

Federal student loans are capped at 57.5k for undergrads. Anyone saddled with 100k debt for undergrad had to have taken out private loans and that's where one really gets in trouble. Further, there are more stringent limitations on the amt of subsidized loans one may take out (no more than 23k of total loans can be subsidized). This means that the person pursuing a master's degree will have interest accruing while in school, or have to continue making payments.

"Yeah, so don't pursue a master's degree." Tell that to teachers in the handful of states that require one w/in five years of career start. Same for a number of professions, like physical therapy, which now calls for a doctorate.

 

This is the biggest scam.
There is no reason a PT needs to have a pHD.
Complete ripofff.
Same as RNs not needing BSN.

Scam by the colleges.

 

I'm confused as to how the colleges are engaging in a scam. They offer the program, but employers (i.e., the market) are the ones asking for the advanced education.

 

Nominations these days are much more ideologically vetted, especially after Souter. Apart from Merrick Garland there hasn’t been a moderate nominated since Souter, and certainly not since GWB.

 

The colleges started pushing the advanced degrees as a way to make the student seem “better”.
Some employers decided to pay a bit more for those who had such degrees.

In the case of BSN many hospitals would like it for “management “ positions.

I’ve been in healthcare since 1986, years ago BSN were rare. There were no pHD PTs, etc. Patient care isn’t any better due to “advanced degrees”, the debt is just bigger.

I have a BS and Masters from UF in Physician Assistant studies has never gotten me a dime more. In fact not one employer has given a crap about it.
I was lucky as when I accepted to the program at UF it was a BS program. I actually came in with an AA and an AS but the program was approved to become a MS program. Our class got both BS and MS for one extra semester (summer A) and Graduate level tuition.

 

I’m not at all an expert but I think what has happened is the best and the brightest tend to get more and more schooling, and employers tend to hire the best and the brightest. The credential is an indication of the quality of applicant. The learned skills in the extra education is much less important.

 

Shouldn't your criticism be directed at employers for valuing what you're saying is a useless credential rather than colleges for responding to a market that values that credential?

 

I wish they could "kill" his legitimacy as POTUS... insane... party like it's 1999... LMFAO!

 

This may be true, I really don't know anything about the profession. In the past, though, PTs required a master's degree, which was my point. Also, Ph.D. is a doctorate of philosophy and offered in many disciplines but I think PTs will not earn a Ph.D. Should be a DPT, kinda like medical doctorate (MD).

 

When you have a hundred people applying for one job, a quick and easy way to cut down on the workload is to toss any applicants without an advanced degree.

You may miss out on a great employee, but your chances of success are higher, and your chances of success per hour invested in the process are way higher.

You never have to defend picking the applicant with the masters degree over the guy with an AS. But if you want to hire the guy with the AS over someone with a masters degree, you better be prepared to fight, and if you get it wrong, be prepared to start your own job search.

 

P

PTs were BS degrees for years.

It’s all overkill for the jobs I listed.

Mind you I’ve only been in medicine since 1987…..