school closures harmed american education

But you see Lenin thought it was bad, so apparently we gotta beat children

 

Don't lie. We all know you'd love to see Trump get a good paddling. I'm sure you'd drill holes in the paddle, put spikes on it, forget to sand it down so the wood might leave some splinters, and then you'd swing it as hard as you can.

 

You can say it as much as you want, but literally all three of your sentences are incorrect.

 

The nonsense excuses continue. At least you understand these shots failed miserably. Though you won’t admit it and continue to support them.

By the way…these shots not only failed to reduce spread. But they also caused massive work loss. You never saw people calling out sick for the flu shot. These shots caused so much damage that people do not even consider. But that 24 hours of being knocked down was worth it for a disease many had no risk from. Let’s hope that 24 hour period was not SMI…

And I did at one time support those who were high risk and had not had Covid taking these things. At this point based on what we know. I was wrong about that.

 

Have two kids. Never spanked. Certainly felt the urge, but violence begets violence, and there are better, more effective ways to punish.

 

You have no clue how the immune system works. Or how vaccines work. You know, to be considered effective, a vaccine needs only 50% immunity levels, meaning 50% are still susceptible to breakthrough cases!

And 24 hours for feeling bad after a shot is the tradeoff for recovering 48-72 hours faster after a breakthrough case. Meaning the shot saved hours of work for people who had a breakthrough case.

And I ask again, if a shot significantly reduces trips to the hospital and the morgue, which the COVID shot does by all measures for people 12 and older, how is that a failure? Because it had a higher breakthrough case rate than other shots? That's an awful metric. The shot didn't stop many from getting sick, but stopped thousands from being hospitalized and dying, but because it didn't stop people from getting sick, it's a failure!?! Does anyone else realize how incredibly idiotic this statement is. Yet, you defend it. What a stupid hill to die on!

 

The nonsense excuses continue. At least you understand these shots failed miserably. Though you won’t admit it and continue to support them.

By the way…these shots not only failed to reduce spread. But they also caused massive work loss to go with the safety signals (that was a safety signal). You never saw people calling out sick for the flu shot. These shots caused so much damage that people do not even consider. But that 24 hours of being knocked down was worth it for a disease many had no risk from. Let’s hope that 24 hour period was not SMI…

And I did at one time support those who were high risk and had not had Covid taking these things. At this point based on what we know. I was wrong about that.

 

How about we settle the debate this way. If Donald Trump was not spanked as a child, then I win. If Donald Trump was spanked as a child, then you win. You willing to take the odds?

 

Hard stop.

 

Is this part of your rigorous approach to evidence you laid out

 

Just having fun with it, but it is an interesting question. I am fairly confident Fred was so occupied with his business ventures and spanking his son was not one of his first priorities. It is just a guess on my part.

 

There's a saying about not removing a fence unless you know why it was put there. I agree that change for the sake of change doesn't make sense, so I get your line of thinking generally. With respect to corporal punishment, though, its inherent aim is to instill fear and/or inflict pain. That's a form of violence even at less severe levels. I think most everyone would agree that violence is a bad thing by default and there should be very limited exceptions to using it. For that reason alone, I think we'd want very compelling evidence to justify corporal punishment, particularly when used on children. This doesn't even get into the once-widespread practice of men inflicting corporal punishment on their wives.

 

The cat was let out of the bag when one poster talked about it being therapeutic (for both the child and spanker), I suppose there is a certain mentality that the strong must assert their dominance over the weak, lest they no longer be considered strong (and the weak needing to be dominated for their own good). It is the natural order or something in their view. I mean, that seems like a cornerstone of fascism to me, or at the very least some kind of perverse social Darwinism.

 

You can try to groom my children with trans and drags all you want. You’re incorrect and on the wrong side of history.

 

I think your quote is on point. If you follow my argument in the previous post closely, then you can see that is exactly what I am saying. People can go around and abolish everything. If you don't replace what you abolished with anything, then you end up with anarchy.

That is what some classrooms are. That is the conditions some children live in as well. That is what some urban areas of the country are like as well. Anarchy is a terrible condition for anyone to live in. So, you have to replace what is abolished with something better. And there seems to be an assumption without much analysis that everything that has replaced corporal punishment is automatically better just because there is a distasteful aura surrounding corporal punishment. So, what is key in our analysis then, is what did you replace corporal punishment with and how effective and harmful is it?

Public flogging was replaced by imprisonment.

Classroom spanking was replaced by suspensions and expulsions or classroom anarchy in places where suspensions and expulsions are frowned upon.

Parental spanking was replaced by timeouts and grounding.

So, when you say corporal punishment is harmful, then OK. That is fine. I think it would be weird to see those things since we are not used them. However, how harmful is imprisonment? How harmful are suspensions and expulsions? How effective are timeouts and grounding in comparison?

What you have to establish is those things are less harmful than corporal punishment. You have to bake all the data related to the long-term socio-economic effects of those things including their contribution to the school to prison pipeline.

We have the data that tells us how harmful and devastating mass incarceration is to families. We know how it has ravaged the African American community. So, that has been proven to be a terrible substitute. We also have data that tells us suspension and expulsions don't work and are associated with the school to prison pipeline. So, we have data indicating that the proposed replacements for corporal punishment in classrooms have terrible long-term effects on people's lives. And that begs the question if the solution for replacing corporal replacement was worse than the problem it was designed to address.

A person could win this argument by simply showing the total failure of the effectiveness of the prison system, the total failure of the disciplinary policies in contemporary education, and the failure of parenting styles that reject corporal punishment. All that has to be demonstrated is those things are worse failures than the system that preceded those things. If they are then the decision to jettison the previous system was not right.

 

Why are we discussing spanking? Please start a new thread if anyone feels like arguing that.

 

Well, that is complicated. I made a harsh comment to a poster that got deleted. I thought he was being rude to another poster. That was the starting point. I apologized to the poster for the comment by PM, but the conversation from that comment still kept going. I tried to get the thread back on topic with my comment that Fauci needs a spanking, but no one seemed to reciprocate.

 

If we just start beating problem kids in schools again, who do you think are going to be fast tracked to prisons and the carceral state?

 

Probably because people are bored about talking about school closures for the 10,000th time here

 

So if I follow, your one example of a child dramatically damaged by school closures managed to fully recover and graduate on time? This seems to support the argument FOR school closures because kids are strong and can bounce back while dead people are dead permanently.