POLL: Results of the Too Hot Panel on Gun VIolence (Please vote)

Can we also agree.....

No guns allowed for white kids who rap!

Also banned are kids with facial tattoos!

 

And if you don’t know how to properly wear pants, not sure you can be trusted to safely use a gun

 

You and I were in strong agreement on having more school counselors as a proactive measure but lost that one. But it points to getting what you can and the value of principled compromise ( I don’t understand what’s wrong with the mouth breathing troglodytes that disagreed with us).

 

I think it's great that this exercise took place and I'm even more glad that there could be a respectful and productive discussion amongst differing opinions and points of view. At the end though, I had to vote no because it was an all of nothing proposal.

• Thoroughly agree with #1 and #2. There really isn't a need I can see for anyone to own a full-auto.
• I have a hard time with #3 because we train and issue firearms to military at 18 years old. Just seems a little silly to have two standards here.
• I get the intent on #4 and #5, but neither truly move the needle as far as firearm safety.
• #6 in my opinion is a "band-aid on a tourniquet". It won't do anything to improve safety, and if the difference is an assailant being able to fire 10 rounds per clip instead of 15, there are much bigger problems to worry about by that time.
• #7 is a good idea in theory, but again those that are going to obtain a firearm with nefarious intent are not going to go through legal channels.
• I'm trying to understand the purpose behind #8. Do schools currently have a requirement for it? How would something like this be enforced?

 

#8 was a "nay" vote for metal detectors. IOW - metal detectors should not be required, but they are optional and are apparently used in some schools.

 

You'll never get some of this stuff through congress. Especially telling certain people they can't have certain guns.

I'm all for discussion though - free speech and everyone has a right to their opinion.

But I also think it's noteworthy to include things that can actually be done.

 

I don’t want to call out specific people, because it might give the impression that others didn’t contribute a lot or as much, but I would like to give @ursidman a shoutout for writing up narratives. Thanks to all the panelists and the mods for their hard work on a project that was completely voluntary and time consuming.

 

I understood that. I didn't think it was a requirement now which is why I was confused. Seemed like a red herring to me.

 

A handful of people own legal automatic weapons. You must hold Class 3 license. Purchasing automatic weapons starts in the mid 5 figures. All are pre 1986 so demand is high for those that can afford it. Awaiting period is already in effect along with a tax stamp. There are people that can turn a mini-14 into an auto weapon along with other semi auto magazine/belt fed weapons.

 

Thanks for catching that. I edited my post to read "semi-automatic".

 

Automatic weapons are already highly regulated and need special licenses. I
don’t see anything else that would be a huge hurdle?

 

I voted no.

Don’t like registration or unspecified magazine limits.

I carried a Ruger P85 9mm semiauto back in the early 1990s when I worked for the SO. I still have the gun. Bought it for $180.00 dollars. I have 2 extra magazines for it that I carried as back ups. The standard magazines are 15 rounds. There are a lot of those type guns of other manufacturers that also stagger bullets in the magazines for greater capacity. Does anyone think that I should not be able to keep my gun or the 3 15 round magazines that I’ve owned for years?

 

I voted no just to see the results, which sucks because I couldn't undo my vote afterwards, only change it.

I didn't feel terribly strongly about any of the proposals and there were definitely some good proposals in there.

Sadly, I only lean "no" because I didn't want to vote for taking metal detectors out of the schools, so my "apparently" pivotal vote has very little to do with gun control.

I want to hand it to the panel though.

People (including me) tend to vote against the one thing they don't approve of and you have compiled a list of 8 hot-button items that receives a measure of support.

 

I’m not sure you are voting to take metal detectors out of schools… just to not make it mandatory for schools to have them.
But maybe I read it wrong

 

You are correct.

 

I was part of the panel, I disagreed with a lot of the outcomes in the polls, but I agreed with others.

Those were by far the most reasonable, civil, and respectful discussions I had seen on Too Hot. It was beyond refreshing.

I proposed and agreed with 7, and agreed with 1, 4, and 5 in part (I don't think schools should be restricted to one entry/exit point, that could backfire badly).

I've noticed some gun rights folks worried about 7. I wholeheartedly understand the slippery slope concerns. I just think if you want background checks with any sort of efficacy, you will have to show the tiger your neck to some degree. Is it a risk? Of course. But if the US government crosses the line and goes for full gun confiscations, we'll just have to cross that bridge when we get there.

We don't want it being the wild west out there, where anybody who knows somebody can get a gun.

 

1. Yes. Assault Weapons should be fully automatic. That is what makes them assault weapons. They should be legal to own as they are under the NFA, but without the 1986 regulations on not manufacturing new ones.
2. Submachine guns should not be illegal, but regulated under the NFA. IMO the NFA should ONLY regulated automatic weapons, not SBRs, SBSs, or Suppressors.
3. Minimum age to purchase a firearm should be 18, same as age of consent. ALL background checks should include juvenile records.
4. #1 priority of school safety should be removing it's classification as a gun free zone. The reason so many are shot up is because it is an incredibly obvious soft target. Allow teachers who have 1) A CWP, 2) Have some advanced tactical training, and 3) actually want to - carry a gun. (I would have if I were allowed when I was in the classroom) And a resource officer doesn't work either - they tend to tuck tail and run rather than defend the innocent. Teachers do a whole lot more to defend their students than resource officers.
5. Absolutely
6. Magazine Capacity - magazine capacity should be restricted to the imagination of the manufacturer and the wallet of the user. I can change a mag in my Glock 19 in less than 1 second. Same in an AR. 3 10 rounders with a 1 second pause is very unlikely to cause even a hiccup in a mass event.
7. Absolutely not, under any circumstances, should a registry be legal. That is the first step toward confiscation. Just ask Australia.
8. Agree it should not be mandatory, but not illegal either.


The problem with the whole referendum is the focus on school violence. Very small percentage of gun deaths occur in schools. Overwhelming percentages are suicides by handgun, followed by homicide by handgun. Homicide by rifle, in raw numbers, are approximately the same each year as homicide by blunt object.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

I find it interesting how many of us either misread the proposals or didn’t understand the thought being conveyed. This is not a knock on anyone here. I always assume every poster on this board is above average intelligence and education.
But we still misread, misunderstood or are ignorant of several things being proposed.
Why do I point this out?
If we are struggling not only to find common ground but to basically understand the terms and definitions being used.. what chance does the average citizen.. or FSU fan for that matter.. have of truly grasping the intricacies of gun violence in America?
It isn’t an easy task. Multi faceted doesn’t cover it. This poll is the top of the top of the iceberg.
Congress just passed gun reform laws. Most I agree with. And immediately we have politicians screaming for more more more.. without even seeing the effect of what has already been passed.
Time. Patience. Understanding. It’s going to take all three. And all three are sorely lacking in America today.

 

Your number 6 is true. It doesn't take much practice.