Proud of my university!

It's absolutely sickening that they even have to sue, and even more sickening that such a large school of thought continues to defend the propriety of maintaining an environment--at universities no less--where a targeted minority must appeal to the courts, for the most basic safety protections.

Could you imagine if the protestors were "the South will rise again!" types, clamoring for fair treatment, and taking up for the KKK--to the point of forcing black students to have to appeal to the courts for basic safety protections?

All the same arguments would be made....no one with a modicum of decency would side with the klan folk.

And that's with a long declawed KKK, vs a resurgent, going nation wide--nay, world wide--Hamas terrorist organization.

Its shameful.

(alas, is shame even recognized anymore?)

 

Sounds to me like that happened WHILE the police were making arrests (and only one person did it), meaning that it wasn't what PROMPTED arrests. But hey, if you've got evidence demonstrating otherwise, feel free to post it.
Pro-Palestinian protestors frustrated after 9 arrested at University of Florida
On Monday, protestors brought out chairs and UFPD officers threatened arrest. After a long standoff, UF officials confirmed that nine people have been arrested.

Never forget the number of absolutely stupid things that this state (and country) criminalize:
Police detain nine protesters at University of Florida
Alachua County jail records show nine people between the ages of 20 and 26 were booked Monday night between 10:16 and 11:12 p.m. Various charges include failure to obey police, resisting arrest without violence, wearing a hood or mask on public property, trespassing and battery.

 

According to the police report. Might be true but I never automatically assume police are telling the truth. Just the opposite. We’ll see.

 

People have many, many options to express their views on campus. Some people get mad when they don't get a reaction to their expression, so they push harder. Next thing you know they've crossed a line that has been identified, expressed, emphasized, and reiterated. There's no surprise here, when it gets to that point, you know it's intentional and is no longer about sharing a message but about getting a reaction. Anybody that has or has had children know this game. If you don't enforce your boundaries, they will keep pushing (see other campuses where matters have escalated further).

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Counterpoint, no they don't publicly. That's true off campus as well.

 

Being visible and being heard are two important forms of communication. What do you believe they are lacking in terms of their options?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

I mean, there arent a lot of public spaces for lots of people to gather in this country at all. Probably why colleges get a lot of attention, since they are a sort of defacto "town square" in a society that has shrunk public spaces remarkably as more and more things are privatized. Big reason why there is lots of debate about the role of social media too, which are private companies, but also act like a defacto "town square" in some people's view. We have lots of opportunities to express views in private or on privatized platforms that tend to be moderated. Do we really have a robust culture of public debate though? I dont think so, and I'm not sure many people want one outside the abstract, given what that would entail. It sort of makes protests the only option to air ones views or grievances! And since public spaces are limited or heavily policed, and rules can be arbitrarily imposed, its easy to shut it down. Just invent a curfew, a rule about camping, or megaphones, or whatever and call the cops. Some peoples idea of free speech is a polite discussion over coffee in quiet, and one that can be avoided easily if you dont want to participate or even hear it. That's not really free speech though, its just a sort of an 'elitist' (for lack of a better word) sentiment that prizes order over everything.

 

The right sentiments, at least. The well recognized exception the free speech is apparently not in place at this University

 

I numbered the paragraphs for ease of reference.

1. The majority of the kids chanting against Israel have been TikTok educated with blatant propaganda, contrived (and thoroughly debunked) stories, and with a one-sided, factually-omitted Hallmark cry-story. I am no fan of Netanyahu, mind you, but the fantasies floating around the “TikTok” networks are pure filth.

2. I’m saying that any student should have the right to walk to classes without fear of violence. Sure, common sense plays a part. But that works both ways. If the agitators take the action to interfere with that right, they need to be punished. Here’s a clip of a kid who made a point of trying to walk to his class, where he was blocked by the agitators who refused to allow him through:



Was the clip staged, in part? Of course, but it is emblematic of peaceful protestors morphing into violence-inducing thugs. I can show you several other clips where Jewish students are tased, punched, spit on, and other terrible actions.

3. The lawsuit exposes the complicity of certain press. I have no doubt you would find it objectionable. I find it objectionable when media is dishonest, of course when it uses its credentials to be complicit. But, again,I know you’ll find the lawsuit to be repressive, and I know that you and I will disagree. (And since you mentioned BLM, whose cause I loudly supported during 2020, let’s remember who that organization proved to be — an entirely corrupt organization whose leadership embezzled millions, who then openly cheered the Hamas massacre on October 7. While I fully and loudly support the fight against hate, that is an entity that has no credibility IMO)

4. I found Sasse’s “red-line” guides to be self-explanatory, clear and direct. I don’t think the a president needs to craft a civil-law based Code delineating precisely every word and action that can and cannot be taken. Moreover, time and experience has proven Sasse correct. Look at the thugs at Columbia, who by the hour are destroying more and more property as the security on that campus has become non-existent.

This is not the Martin Luther King type of peaceful protest. It is organized and paid for by outside factors who have no interest in peace or stability. They have, for example, organized “arrest controls,” where the agitators are schooled on how to be arrested, how to incite the police and then look to be the victim. These “protests” are professional-driven, and if order is not quickly maintained, BY DESIGN they will exponentially grow and fester into what has occurred elsewhere, like at Emory and Columbia.

 

We also disagree, on part. When you tell people who engage in hate speech that it’s OK to think with hate, you give that hate license to grow. That has never, ever, ever ended well.

And you can disagree all you want about whether there is antisemitic trash and venom being thrust around the campuses. Just because you’re Jewish and you disagree with the thought doesn’t make it so. The venom is there, it is growing, and it is getting louder and louder and louder, to where your precious fight for free speech will be subsumed by the will of hate.

 

To hide under a rock and claim that there is no imminence to lawless action — when the “protests” are being organized by the very same group that organized the Columbia and Emory (amongst others) protests, is IMO just simply cowardice. We have seen with our very eyes what is transforming. Ignoring it, hoping it doesn’t happen here, singing koombaya, does nothing to protect the school against the imminent danger that is faced.

 

I get it kids, you don't like what is going on with Israel. But what in the heck is UF going to do about it?

You did your thing, you made your voice heard. Now go protest where you can make a difference.

And these kids are supposed to be smart?

 

That's not the standard. What you're advocating for is the bad tendency test, a repressive standard that allowed the prosecution of political dissenters (especially socialists) because their speech had a "dangerous" tendency. The Supreme Court repudiated that test in Brandenburg. Imminent means imminent. Cowardice is suppressing speech you disagree with as a preemptive strike.

 

That's just a dishonest interpretation of what I said. The remedy to hate speech is to use speech to show how full of shit they are and to impose social consequences. It is not government suppression. My precious fight for free speech is a fight for the soul of this country. There are malicious forces who would love nothing more than for people to trade away their liberty for security.

 

I think I figured out our disconnect. You are focusing in speech, and I am focusing on action. I am it advocating for silencing protestors, I am siding with Sasse for taking reasonably necessary, proactive measures to ensure the overall safety of the students and property on campus. Protestors can go off campus if they want to use amplifiers, or sleep in tents. There’s several parks downtown that can very likely accommodate them. But while in campus, particularly during the finals season now in place, no disorderly conduct, no sleepovers, and no violence.

 

I am focusing on speech. You are focusing on the action of suppressing speech. The students live on campus. They pay to go to college there. UF has public squares. They are not required to go off campus to make their views known. And UF cannot create rules that violate the Constitution. It is a government entity. It's that simple.

 

should protestors be able to physically block free movement and verbally accost people?

 

The “no megaphones” and no chairs stuff is stupid. Even if protestors are “being annoying” to people walking by, I think that’s all well within the realm of speech. A govt is on very shaky ground trying to restrict that, even under the guise of it being finals week. Could just make sure they stay away from the classrooms and stay on the lawn. Definitely interesting how the same folks who were “free speech absolutists” when the Nazi’s and alt-right come to town, are so suddenly interested in ending protests. Hmm. Almost like they have zero principles in the matter.

I draw the line when they start breaking things, like what they had to do to “occupy” that building at Columbia. Once those windows are smashed, if you are inside it’s fair game to call everyone inside criminal at that point. Interestingly, that’s also basically the line the govt drew when dealing with the 1/6 tourists defendants. It’s also across the line to start menacing/following people, such as the ridiculous idiots who blocked the Jewish kid from entering his building. That’s all criminal activity, not “protest”.

 

“That simple.” That might be the funniest thing you’ve ever written. There’s nothing “simple” about constitutional law. And there is certainly nothing simple about first amendment law. Just look at the DeSantis win on what looked to be a simple case of governmental retaliation against free speech.