Proud of my university!

This is largely consistent with my position. I suspect that the only way a solution will occur in that region is if both sides come to the conclusion that neither wins by continuing the war (and I mean that term in the broader sense than the current conflict). Essentially, Good Friday Accords in Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, I suspect that both sides, especially at the leadership level but even down to the population level to some extent, feel like the war is a potential or current win for them. So on we go.

 

Well that guy that ran over some protestors recently was related to a Kahanist (a far right strain of Zionism) that believes exactly that. They believe non-Jews must become second class citizens (i.e. subjects of apartheid) or be forced to leave the country.

 

Unfortunately, both sides now view the other as unacceptable. Israel has offered a two-state solution, it’s always turned down because the existence of Israel has been unacceptable to the Palestinian negotiating teams. This time, I don’t see Israel agreeing to allow Hamas to govern. Israel might (and should) allow a neutral, or even Arab coalition, to govern Gaza, but they won’t allow Hamas there anymore, not after October 7.

 

That argument is like saying MJT speaks for all the West.

 

Revisionist Zionism. A central goal of the movement was the creation of a "Jewish majority" on "both sides of the Jordan." Likud and much of the Israeli right evolved from this group, while the Labor coalition that initially led Israel came from the World Zionist Organization.

Revisionist Zionism

 

I didnt say he did, you are the one who wanted to make Zionism a singular cohesive ideology, but there are some common beliefs, mainly the establishment and continuation of Israel as an explicitly Jewish state. Of course, people have disagreements on how that can or should be accomplished. But for the most part, the right-wing view has won out, and Israeli governance is closer to Kahanism than liberal Zionism in 2024.

 

I will say that I agree with Zionism as I think it defined, namely the realization of a Jewish state. That's very abstract, and almost impossible to apply with perfect fairness (although that limitation infects every issue). And I despise the ethnic cleansing outlook of the current coalition.

But agree with the abstract concept of Zionism. It goes against everything I believe with regard to states generally - Westphalia and all that. States are not ethnic or tribal. With this one exception. The history makes Jews and Israel different.

 

Ah, but all nationalisms argue that! That's the whole point, that you're different unlike those other people.

 

A foolish consistency and all that

 

It looks like DeSantis wants to make sure Sasse isn’t the center of attention, and that his ignorant evil is recognized as the true source of the repression. And he wants to make sure that everyone realizes that the decision to use force s not based on neutral enforcement of the laws or public safety, but because he thinks the students are ideologically wrong and not as smart as he is, which is ironic, because he seeks to be the avatar of a political movement premised on proud ignorance and factual falsity.


Gov. Ron DeSantis personally directed the Florida Highway Patrol’s response to the recent pro-Palestinian campus protests in Florida, a top state official said Wednesday.




“As we have seen very clearly, there is a stark difference between Florida and many other states in this nation,” Kerner said. “This is very intentional. Our governor will not bend to the shrill and illogical will of an entitled and reckless super-minority. He will not tolerate for a moment our campuses degenerating into collectives of violence and anti-American and antisemitic dogma, and neither will the Florida Highway Patrol.”

DeSantis said he thought many protesters were joining a “chic cause” without understanding history and “spouting nonsense.”

“It’s very concerning, some of these elite institutions around the country: Are they just graduating a bunch of imbeciles?” he said. “I think unfortunately that’s the case. That’s why a lot of these people are not going to have job offers. You see even a lot of the big financial institutions, which are very liberal, are now saying we’re not going to be entertaining this nonsense anymore.”


it’s ironic. Conservatives are ways complaining that more educated liberals look own on them, when they are the most condescending on issues even though conservatives are far less informed

DeSantis directed response to campus protests
DeSantis directed response to campus protests - Tampa Bay Times

 

Gotta appreciate DeSantis stumbling in and saying, "No, actually, it was about their message!"

 

Yep. I would say that's a fatal legal admission but I'm never sure anymore.

 

Interesting POV.


"If in the past the problem was indifference, today it is indulgence. University leaders are not indifferent. They care a lot. They care about protecting their students, both pro-Palestinian protesters and pro-Israel students. But they have created a culture of indulgence. They indulge their students to break their institutions’ rules without consequences. They indulge one group of students at the expense of another who are being intimidated and threatened. And worst of all, they indulge lies without speaking the truth.

But one thing all civilized people should agree upon is that Hamas is a terrorist organization and using its language and symbols is morally repugnant, not just to Jews but to all people of conscience. By now, does anyone really not understand the implications of the phrases "from the river to the sea" or "globalize the intifada"?"


Campus protests reveal weakness of university leaders who indulge lies (usatoday.com)

 

The author doesn’t

 

Not this bullshit again. If you want to say that the protesters shouldn't use that language because of what it means to OTHER people, I am open to that perspective. But as soon as you (the author of the op-ed) start telling me that phrases that have disputed meanings and mean very different things to different people can only be interpreted one way, I start to tune you out. It's arguing in bad faith.

 

BTW, after all the talk about how Sasse had to do what he did to avert some coming crisis, this is a telling statistic (and undercuts that preemptive strike argument):
Nearly all Gaza campus protests in the US have been peaceful, study finds

 

Come on!!! “From the river to the sea” means one thing, and one thing only - the total eradication of Israel. I can accept that your friend, Allan, might’ve innocently thought it was benign when he chanted it at inception, it at this point? Come on!!! Its meaning is thoroughly understood, and it is evil.

 

Sasse had to act quickly to avert the danger of criticism from the chattering class that find the message offensive and want it suppressed before it spreads.

That and drone strikes ordered by the Governor, who is is trying to avert the danger of media inattention on him

 

This states that only twenty protest caused SERIOUS interpersonal violence or property damage.
Define serious. How much violence should be tolerated.How much property damage should be allowed? Ignored?
Does blockading students from classroom buildings count? Yelling slurs at Jewish kids as they walk by on the common grounds? Does threatening graffiti count as serious property damage?
You have brought up the “chill effe t” when discussing other issues.. does not the actions of these protesters cause a chill effect for the Jewish students on campus.. as well as others?