Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Hi there... Can you please quickly check to make sure your email address is up to date here? Just in case we need to reach out to you or you lose your password. Muchero thanks!

Oil and Gas

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    11,907
    1,168
    698
    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Thought from another thread about DeSantis holding the state gas tax cut until October, perhaps it was held for political reasons… but if it had been used in June or July and not now gas would be higher now right before the mid terms…
    Wouldn’t that hurt the Dems more if gas was higher the month before the election?
     
  2. luvtruthg8r

    luvtruthg8r Premium Member

    653
    156
    1,723
    Apr 3, 2007
    This is MBS and Putin helping their friends, Trump and the Republicans. This election is about democracy vs. fascism, and the Republicans are being materially helped by a new axis of fascism. There is a clear message from the reality that many of the world's fascists support Republicans. That message: "We fascists realize that the Republicans are on our side, so we are on THEIR side, all in an effort to support the institution of fascism in the USA by the GOP".
     
    • Come On Man x 5
    • Agree x 4
    • Disagree Bacon! x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • Informative x 1
  3. G8R92

    G8R92 GC Hall of Fame

    3,306
    378
    378
    Feb 5, 2010
    The OPEC+ cut is just a formality. They were already under producing their current quota by 3.5 MB/D. Prices will rise on the short term but demand has been weak.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Off-topic Off-topic x 1
  4. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

    4,985
    1,025
    2,088
    Oct 17, 2015
    Old City
    The “gas station” countries are not allied with the western world. Releasing strategic reserves is dumber than cutting the taxes.
    Can’t drive 55 is coming back! The world knows how to be more fuel efficient (tiny cars) we just don’t want to.
    Time to keep all that good sweet Texas crude here and build refineries in cali and Jersey ;)
     
  5. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

    10,129
    2,478
    3,233
    Sep 20, 2014
    Also knife in Biden’s back. He visited SA in July and keeping oil prices low, in part because of the war in Ukraine, was a major topic of discussion.
     
  6. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

    10,129
    2,478
    3,233
    Sep 20, 2014
    Never thought of that. Could be.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,326
    6,020
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    I’d say it’s more like OPEC finally realizing we have absolutely zero will or the balls to spend the R&D or take a short term hit to get off their oil, so they can demand any price they like, the world will bend over and take it,
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,495
    12,178
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    this, I don't understand the market reaction when that information is apparently widely known by those that buy and sell oil. The bigger picture is that they have been pumping as much as they can and the spare capacity that they claimed to have doesn't exist.

    but there is another element and that is the strength of the dollar is raising the real cost of energy to the end users that don't use dollars. That is likely to create demand destruction via inflation which decreases activity which decreases demand. They have to know this and not care. That doesn't seem like a good business practice so what are the other reasons to decrease demand of the product you make your money on?

    Oil prices rise after OPEC+ agrees to cut production by 2 million barrels a day, extending a winning streak to a 3rd session (msn.com)

    "The larger OPEC+ group has consistently failed to meet required production levels – an issue that seemed problematic earlier this year as the market was nervous about the potential loss of Russian barrels. However, global crude oil inventories have started to rise as demand cooled, the US released oil from strategic stockpiles and Russian production proved more durable than some had thought," said Peter McNally, global sector lead for industrials, materials and energy, at research firm Third Bridge, in a note.

    OPEC+ "will continue to need monthly meetings to manage the market. The looming EU ban on Russian imports takes effect on 5 December and OPEC, particularly Saudi Arabia and the UAE, could find themselves adding barrels back again if the situation proves messy," said McNally.
     
  9. luvtruthg8r

    luvtruthg8r Premium Member

    653
    156
    1,723
    Apr 3, 2007
    Sorry, that is an overly benign interpretation of the ongoing scenario. This is a Putin/MBS/Trump operation. We KNOW that Putin wants the Republicans to win, and as for MBS, his friendship with Trump and Kushner ($2 billion gift by MBS to him recently) surely is a strong factor, as is the fact that Trump and company refused to condemn the murder that MBS ordered. This altogether points to malignant political motivations.
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  10. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,326
    6,020
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    if you read around, the consensus from the experts is that this wasn’t political. OPEC are afraid a recession will lower demand, so announcing it now gives them a chance to show unity over something that will likely have to happen anyway, and not have to fight about it later when income is a larger issue. They already below their quotas.

    But the fact that $80-90 a barrel is the new normal is the problem and why they don’t care. We have accepted it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. luvtruthg8r

    luvtruthg8r Premium Member

    653
    156
    1,723
    Apr 3, 2007
    I've been reading around, and many experts disagree with you. This is part of the ongoing effort to destroy our democracy, something Trump/Putin/MBS all want.
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,326
    6,020
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    here are some unbiased sources.

    A policy think tank on the geopolitical concerns:
    OPEC to Cut Oil Production, Dealing a Blow to Biden

    A financial site on the macro financial aspects:
    What's next for oil prices after OPEC+ delivers a big production cut

    and an oil specific site on the industry specific reasons:
    Why OPEC+ Is Considering A Production Cut | OilPrice.com

    All that said, to your point, I’m sure MBS in particular isn’t crying over sticking it to Biden in the process. While oil specifically isn’t my realm, the macro economic environment is central to my job, so I follow it all fairly closely. If it’s political, it’s a fairly well kept secret.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

    2,111
    734
    1,848
    Aug 4, 2020
    Top of the ridge
    Apparently Trump is the boogeyman behind everything.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

    2,529
    3,567
    1,998
    Dec 31, 2016
    Inflation, energy prices and supply are an issue of a global scale. Everyone is feeling the pinch and the debt crisis is looming ever larger. Over $31 Trillion in debt and higher interest rates is a disaster for every nations budget as well as consumers. As interest rates rise it wont be long before servicing the debt exceeds expenditures on social programs.

    So what to do about it? UNCTAD released a report that does not paint a pretty picture. Further more the UNCTAD is recommending strategic price controls, windfall taxes, anti-trust measures and tighter regulations on commodity speculation.

    We will see how this plays out as UNCATD has no authority to implement any of their recommendations. That doesn't mean that these recommendations will not be implemented by individual nations. We are already seeing this happen in European countries.

    Launch of the Trade and Development Report 2022
    In many developing countries, inflation has been largely driven by energy and food prices and exchange rate depreciation, which has made imports more expensive.

    Even as international prices have gone down, domestic prices in developing countries have gone up because of the depreciation of the currencies. So, large corporations with considerable market power appear haven taken undue advantage of the current context and financial speculation has also played an important role.

    As inflation is beginning to ease in advanced economies, we call for a correction in favour of policy measures targeting price spikes in energy, food, and other vital areas directly.
    .......
    We call then for a more pragmatic policy mix that deploys strategic price controls, windfall taxes, anti-trust measures and tighter regulations on commodity speculation. I repeat a more pragmatic policy mix that deploys strategic price controls, windfall taxes, anti-trust measures and tighter regulations on commodity speculation. For example, the European Union is pursuing a policy agenda along these lines – promoting demand reduction, taxing windfall profits, sheltering consumers from rising fuel prices.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. GatorFanCF

    GatorFanCF Premium Member

    5,251
    1,023
    1,968
    Apr 14, 2007
    Yep. It’s all about the USA. And, if it happens to hurt Biden it’s all about DJT. :rolleyes:

    No wonder the world thinks we’re arrogant.
     
  16. kurt_borglum

    kurt_borglum VIP Member

    4,278
    493
    208
    Dec 18, 2007
    If you bought the new Rover EV truck, it would take 4 days to charge on your regular 120 voltage. it would have been tough to get it charged in time to flee a hurricane.

    If everyone had EV vehicles now, the grid would collapse. Most houses will have to upgrade their fuse box to handle EVs. Of course, almost every single EV is currently powered by coal, oil, nat gas or nuclear power. EV is creating its own environmental disaster with batteries that are made of highly toxic materials that can't be recycled. It also takes tons and tons of rare earth minerals to make the batteries currently.

    Wind power has failed to power England and Germany. Those countries are reimplementing coal and wood as fuels. It will take time to implement a shift from fossil fuels to cleaner technologies. It won't happen by 2035. This doesn't mean we don't move forward with a move to cleaner energies. Just do it in a reasonable, achievable timeframe.

    Most Americans did not appreciate the strategic value of the energy independence we had just 2 years ago. We were not subject to other countries deciding issues about energy. We would have been in a position to help Europe with nat gas.

    I prefer to think of all this as fighting pollution, from whatever source. As long as we have plastics, we will need oil. So we have to develop an alternative to plastics too. Some drugs use oil, so we have to change that as well.

    Progress to cleaner energy is an evolution not a revolution.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,495
    12,178
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    to lease or not to lease. realistically, putting leasing on hold until existing leases are explored will not impact the industry at all. Politically it would be suicide as gas prices start to rise going into the election.

    Hopefully they can craft leases with commitments to provide the royalties and x% of production to the SPR at set price ($80 per bbl) within 5 years and jumpstart offshore production to refill the SPR. That would take revision to the SPR bill that requires purchases at spot prices instead of long term contracts.

    current offshore leases are not being developed due to the high capital costs and unknown demand. solidify the demand with a min % going to the SPR at a set price and jumpstart development of the resources and rebuild/salvage our offshore drilling expertise and support systems.

    Biden admin weighs complete block on offshore oil drilling as gas prices keep rising (msn.com)

    Under the DOI's proposal, the federal government could choose to hold anywhere between 0-11 offshore lease sales, compared to the Trump administration's version which called for 47 such sales. Federal law mandates the interior secretary to issue offshore leasing plans every five years laying out prospective oil and gas lease sales.

    However, the administration dragged its feet on a replacement plan as it considered objections from environmental groups, which oppose all new fossil fuel leasing, and pressure from industry as gas prices surged. In her statement announcing the proposal on July 1, Interior Secretary Deb Haaland reaffirmed her and President Biden's "commitment to transition to a clean energy economy."

    On Thursday, industry leaders pointed again to energy prices which have moved upward again in recent weeks. The average price of gasoline nationwide increased to $3.87 a gallon on Thursday, according to AAA data.

    "The benefits of the U.S. offshore are felt far beyond the Gulf Coast. Finalization of a robust national leasing program is fundamental to secure these benefits for the next generation," National Ocean Industries Association (NOIA) President Erik Milito told FOX Business in a statement. "Energy prices remain stubbornly high, the global economic outlook is uncertain, and our allies need an alternative to higher-emitting Russian-produced energy."
     
  18. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,495
    12,178
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    Meanwhile, KSA is setting prices based on your location on the planet and prices to USA are going up while prices to EU and Asia are going down. Somebody has to pay for those LIV tournaments..
    more practically, the US is buying in dollars so it doesn't hurt as much as the conversion is killing the economies in the rest of the world as the $$ gains value.

    Saudi Arabia lowers oil prices for Europe but raises them again for the US as White House says OPEC+ is siding with Russia (msn.com)

    Saudi Arabia is raising oil prices for the US market again, while lowering them for Europe and leaving them largely unchanged for Asia.

    November shipments of Arab Light crude to Asia from state-run producer Saudi Aramco will remain steady at $5.85 per barrel above benchmark prices. A Bloomberg survey estimated prices in Asia, the kingdom's top market, would rise by $0.40 per barrel.
     
  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,495
    12,178
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    this is a point that I have not seen discussed elsewhere. OPEC+ may have done this as a revolt against the concept of price fixing. What if MB wants to dismember someone else, he doesn't want his oil price being dictated by an international "cartel" out for justice


    "This is hugely political and a very clear signal of OPEC's discontent regarding the price cap," Amrita Sen, chief oil analyst at Energy Aspects, told the Financial Times. "Regardless of whether the price cap is actually effective, they see this as a dangerous precedent."
     
  20. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    32,495
    12,178
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    should the US limit or tax distilled exports to keep more fuel here and keep prices down?