Nobody's gotten to the bottom of 9/11

Bless your heart. I remember once pointing out to one of my Mormon friends (very nice, very smart man) that DNA kind of disproved that pre-Colombian North Americans were direct descendants of Jewish people who had escaped in an ark of sorts, but that, hey, Joseph Smith didn’t know anything about DNA when he wrote the Book of Mormon (and he did write the Book of Mormon), so it wasn’t a surprise that he got that wrong. I’ll bet you’re just as persuasive with your forensic argument as I was.

 

Only one thing bothered me from 9/11 and the 9/11 commission report. Multiple times there are references to the fact that calls were received by authorities, family members, etc...from personal cell phones from the 4 hijacked jets. That was impossible in 2001. Cell transmissions from commercial aircraft was not proven possible until 2004 when Qualcomm and American Airlines installed the first CDMA based pico-cell on a commercial airliner.

As I said earlier, I don't believe that cries out conspiracy, but I think an awful lot of what was recalled from that day was flawed by so many people in shock.

 

What stands out to me that day is the behavior of the President of the United States, the Secretary of Defense, and the Acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs - the three top men in charge of America's defense - during the attacks. What did they do? Nothing at all. As if in unison all three simply hid in plain sight, completely shameless, until the attacks were over.

Have you heard of the "just let it happen" theory of 9/11? The seemingly concerted behavior of Bush, Rumsfeld, and Myers fits it to a tee. Oh, and throw in Rumsfeld's assistant secretary Wolfowitz, who shamelessly said, after both towers were hit, that there didn't seem to be much to do about it so he just continued with a routine meeting. Let me ask you, is that what you would do as an assistant secretary of defense while America was under attack? "Can do anything about it. Let's see, where were we? What were you saying?"

 

I think a lot of those calls were made when the planes were flying at much lower altitudes than normal. And some of those calls weren’t from cell phones but the headrest phones.

 

This was written by one of the engineers responsible for investigating the collapse of the WTC including WTC-7. I think the report of the collapse was just a little more credible than the Book of Mormon:

The NIST team for the WTC investigation included approximately 85 staff members from across the agency. But the investigation was not done only by NIST. The full investigation team consisted of more than 200 people, including world-class scientists and engineers from industry and academia, to help us meet the challenges of the investigation’s unprecedented scope, scale and technical complexity. The investigation team acted tirelessly with dedication to and in memory of the lives that were lost on that day, and with the complete objectivity and integrity that have guided NIST over its 120-year history. Our investigation also benefited from the new NCST Advisory Committee established by Congress and made up of highly respected non-NIST experts from industry and academia.

The WTC buildings collapsed from many different factors working together in a complex fashion. Our investigation used physics-based computer simulations together with the available evidence. These very large-scale computations took into account the multiple impacts of airplane and debris, the spread of multi-floor fires ignited by jet fuel or flying debris, the heat-related weakening of structural components with intact or dislodged fireproofing materials, and the complex responses of the building structures leading to their collapse. Successfully combining state-of-the-art computational tools in ways that had not been done before, a single end-to-end simulation on then-existing computing resources took about two months to carry out for one of the WTC towers and eight months for WTC 7. We conducted live fire experiments that ranged from the simple (to gather data on burning characteristics of the jet fuel) to the more complex (a complete WTC office mock-up with furnishings). These experiments validated the computer simulations that would ultimately determine the probable collapse sequence for each building and guide many recommendations.

We relied on extensive evidence — combined with careful and detailed review, analysis and testing — to build our models, and validate our simulations, hypotheses and findings. This evidence included 236 major structural steel components, 7,000 video segments, more than 7,000 photographs, emergency responder communications, published accounts of evacuation from 400 survivors, and a large collection of design, construction, maintenance and inspection documents for the three buildings.

NIST released 47 reports from our investigation — totaling about 11,000 pages — which included robust science-based findings and conclusions, as well as recommendations for major safety improvements to U.S. buildings. We determined why and how each of the 110-story WTC towers collapsed following the initial impacts of the aircraft and why and how the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed; whether the injuries and fatalities were high or low depending on location, including all technical aspects of fire protection, occupant behavior, evacuation and emergency response; and what procedures and practices were used in the design, construction, operation and maintenance of these buildings.​

20 Years Later: NIST's World Trade Center Investigation and Its Legacy

​

 

Correct, and I am assuming that is what confused the record. However, if you read the commission report, it specifically references individual cell phone numbers appearing on caller IDs. That was impossible.

 

Something like 35 or 37 calls were made and all but 2 were made from airfones with the 2 being "cell phones." Just read an article after seeing NC post about the cell phones.

 

Yep. And I assume those calls went through because the plane was a few hundred feet off the ground at the time they were made. Same as making a call from the ground in 2001 which was perfectly possible.

 

In conducting its investigation NIST by its own admission did not even consider the possibility of controlled demolition. It was not on the table, even though it would presumably help debunk conspiracy theories. It was not considered for obvious cowardly reasons. No government agency is going to implicate the government in any kind of inside job. The investigation thus started with a foregone conclusion, and any evidence of controlled demolition was therefore ignored or thrown out. I don't think I have to explain to anyone here that starting with a foregone conclusion, then building a case to support that conclusion, and ignoring any evidence against it, is not science. It is more like garbage in, garbage out. For that reason I wouldn't trust anything that NIST says about 9/11. It's not worthy of trust.

 

Maybe because a controlled demolition is a ridiculous assertion. It takes an enormous amount of prep work to demo a building not to mention they are typically gutted down to the structural members. Then there is the small issue of the rapid sequence and very loud explosions that occur. Maybe it was some top secret method that was detonated by a passerby wearing a james bond style detonator from a wrist watch.....



And again, for what purpose. It's not like there wasn't an attack on the WTC before. It was a known target and suffered a failed attempt in 1994. Why even crash planes into buildings to begin with? Why the convoluted grandiose plan with so many moving parts.

Yeah I'm fine being "sheeple" if it means I have common sense and don't see boogie men everywhere.

 

they didnt consider aliens shooting lasers either. That doesnt make the investigation flawed

 

Some unusual "maintenance work" was done in the towers in the days before 9/11.

Explosions were heard, but don't let that stop you.

Nonsensical ridicule is always a good argument.

Have you ever heard of "shock and awe"? A term coined by the military itself, I believe. That's exactly what the fiery plane crashes and building collapses were for. Shock and awe. Enough to rile up the nation for war.

Yeah, you're the one using common sense. Congratulations.

 

And another video demonstrating the amount of prep work to implode a building lol. Literally drilling into concrete structural members....

 

Once again...another comment about explosions that was addressed. Firefighters describe the floors collapsing as sounding like explosions. Not the same thing as saying they heard detonations or actual explosions. Pretty sure the sound of massive amounts of materials collapsing on each other would sound like an explosion. Then people point to dust and smoke clouds shooting out as the towers fell. Ever opened or closed a door to a building and heard another move? If that little change in air pressure does that what do people think happens to the volume of air and contents when entire floors collapse on each other?

"Nonsense and ridicule" is how I responded to a nonsensical ridicule you made of an investigation because you refuse to accept their conclusion.

Is what it is. An anonymous internet poster isn't going to change your mind considering none of the overwhelming evidence over all these years hasn't yet. Have a good one.

 

Nonsensical ridicule is always a good argument. The collapses didn't look like aliens shooting lasers. They looked like controlled demolition. Oh, but don't go there.

I was wrong when I said I shouldn't have to explain science to anyone here.

 

I refuse to accept the conclusion of any investigation masquerading as science by using only evidence for a foregone conclusion.

I'm done with this. This was all covered years ago and who cares? You have a good one too.

 

BTW, the Republican candidate for Attorney General in Maryland is apparently a believer in the 9/11 explosives theory. Just won the Republican Primary.

Republican nominee for Maryland attorney general hosted 9/11 conspiracy radio shows - CNNPolitics

 

There are conspiracy theories and then there are conspiracy theories. Possible government complicity in 9/11 is a little different from Democrats eating babies. (I don't think the latter theory even tells us what kind of sauce is used.)

 

What do aliens shooting lasers look like?