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New York City and Chicago Response to Immigrants

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by thelouisianagator, Jan 1, 2024.

  1. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    The 11 breaches represent areas with no official crossings, and a completed wall. For example, there are about 125 miles between San Luis, AZ, and Lukeville, AZ, with no paved road on the US side between the two. There is a road on the Mexican side. There are no official crossing points between these two, but plenty of completed wall. Wall again, that is breached 11 times per day in this area. In other words, the wall is completely useless.

    That's still true today. People who come in through official crossing areas and asking for asylum aren't considered a wall breach. They aren't breaking any laws.

    And yes, I'd prefer to take care of our own. And in our country, we are facing significant labor shortages. There are more open jobs then there are unemployed. And immigration is the most obvious answer. It's a win-win. We need the labor, and the immigrants need jobs. Instead of forcing the immigrants to cross illegally by breaching the wall, or waiting on asylum, we should do what has twice has been suggested as the best course of action by bipartisan committees, which is a Gang of 8 style increased guest worker visa program.
     
  2. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Saying people on the terrorist watch list caught on the S border sells clicks. Saying people who were on the list just had unfortunate names does not. But the previous stat that a total of 3 people who have illegally entered the S border has been convicted of terrorism is still the truth. And again, all were under the age of 5 when they entered the US.
     
  3. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Cartels have power when you have laws that don't recognize economic realities. See also the drug markets. You want to rob them of their power? Stop pretending that big government can dictate supply-and-demand.
     
  4. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    The largest terrorist attack on US soil was clearly 9/11. Know how many of those terrorists entered illegally through Mexico? Zero. Why? It's simple. A 9/11 attack takes months and months of planning, and entering illegally through Mexico is very high risk. There's about a 1 in 3 chance you will be caught, and somewhere around a 1 in 20 risk of not surviving the trip. Hard to say, because there are bodies that will likely never be found due to the elements. Statistically, if the 22 9/11 terrorists had attempted entry through Mexico illegally, 7 would have been caught, and 1 would have died before completing the trip. And 9/11 likely would have failed long before that fateful day.

    There might be a lone wolf terrorist who might make the attempt, but the cartels in Mexico would try and prevent this. The last thing the cartels want is US military involvement on the Mexican side of the border. Cartels are ruthless, but they are, in the end, rational business people. The US military is bad for their business.

    Again, to date, three people in total have been convicted of terrorism in the US who entered illegally through Mexico. And they were all under 5 years old when they entered.
     
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  5. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    To reply to my own post, a bipartisan group (a Democrat, a Republican and an Independent) are working on a measure which they hope to present for consideration. The Senate has indicated it will probably pass it. Want to bet the House GOP scuttles it.....again? The GOP is more interested in votes than bipartisan reform. Party over country as usual.
     
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  6. thelouisianagator

    thelouisianagator Senior

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    I'm sorry but this is all factually incorrect. First of all by not having a true border none of us have a clue who are in this country. You don't, I don't and most importantly our government doesn't. No doubt there are terrorists who have come in through the southern border with Mexico. Many, probably not, but even 1 terrorist who comes in through the southern border is 1 too many!!

    And please stop with the play on words. What is an undocumented immigrant? That sounds to be like an immigrant who entered the country illegally without going through border security, surrendering themselves to United States Border Patrol, claiming asylum and having a court date set up. It's the typical Democrat strategy, try to do the play on words to move the conversation in the direction they want. Guess what it means when an immigrant enters the country illegally? They are an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT!

    And here's the thing, by entering the country illegally, they have committed a serious crime. Every single illegal immigrant, by entering the country illegally, is a criminal. 100% of illegal immigrants have committed a crime. 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals. Illegal immigrants are criminals at a staggeringly higher percent that citizens. So stop playing the word game.

    You say they don't want to risk committing a crime. But many illegal immigrants could look at it the other way. When they see our border laws are not enforced and that there is no penalty to breaking our border laws, what message does that send them? Sure many won't break other laws, but for many illegal immigrants they might think "well if they don't enforce that law what other laws do they not enforce?", or even worse, "well if they don't enforce that law maybe they don't enforce any of their laws." and then it leads to them breaking other laws. Illegal immigrants commit crimes at a higher rate than citizens.

    AzCatFan just accept that your guest worker visa program will never see the light of day. It will never even get close to ever passing and will never become the law of the land. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2024
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  7. thelouisianagator

    thelouisianagator Senior

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    And yet all I have to point to is the Speakership debacle with Kevin McCarthy. Democrats could've easily torpedoed the house freedom caucus, prevented chaos and kept Kevin McCarthy. In the process they could've prevented Congress from coming to a stop, prevented a more ideological Conservative from taking the Speakership and had a ready made campaign ad on how they put Country over Party. Heck in my opinion they missed an opportunity. They could've kept Kevin McCarthy as the speaker and basically ran on "while the Republicans tried to stop Congress, we were the adults in the room trying to keep it running even though it would mean losing a political opportunity for us".

    There's no debate that from a party perspective they had no reason to do that. Absolutely it benefited the Democrats as a party (though in my opinion not as much as if they had done what I described above). But if they were truly "Country over Party" they would've kept Kevin McCarthy because keeping Congress running was more important to them than a partisan political win.

    Of course they didn't do that, showing how hypocritical they are. Because doing what I said above would actually involve putting Country over Party. But typical Democrats, more concerned about getting a political win than keeping the country running. Typical Democrats, Party over Country as usual. They all but started the "Party over Country' mentality.
     
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  8. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    When has the US ever had a secure border with Mexico? The answer is NEVER! So spare me your BS we need a secure border. It isn't possible. Just ask Israel.

    Undocumented immigrants who cross, surrender to ICE, and request asylum haven't committed a single crime. This is all legal. Those who overstay a Visa or enter illegally have committed only a misdemeanor, on par with j-walking. Some "serious" crime there. The only punishment is deportation.

    And yes, people who walk for weeks from places like Honduras aren't coming here to commit crime. Why walk that far when crime is rampant at home, and criminals aren't likely to get caught back home? It makes zero sense. Just like all mass migrations to the US, immigrants today are fleeing conditions so bad, staying home isn't an option. Be it famine, war, crime, violence, or religious persecution, the basic story hasn't changed in centuries.

    What else hasn't changed in decades is our need for immigrant labor. If we never get the Gang of 8 style plan, then we're insane. We've been doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. Meanwhile, many R politicians have constituents with money who rely on immigrant labor. There's good reason not R until racist Trump has suggested mass deportation. And many Rs fear if Trump gets his way, the economic catastrophe would damage the Rs for a long, long time.
     
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  9. G8tas

    G8tas GC Hall of Fame

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    Landings in South Florida are up. Should we build a wall?
     
  10. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    Not for one minute do I excuse the shenanigans of Democrats, but when you have a substantial majority of Republicans, elected or otherwise, STILL disputing the validity of the last election DESPITE NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD FRAUD, then you have party over country even if it destroys the country. Further, Johnson no more endangers the country than McCarthy did given the extremists in the GOP. To suggest the Democrats refusing to save the GOP from itself bespoke a lack of fealty to the Constitution is simply hyper partisan absurdity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2024