New Video in Uvalde

At a minimum they could have engaged him in oder to take his attention off of innocent kids and made him focus on the swarm of armed cops....

 

You've got it backwards, I said that they could have been prosecuted or vilified had things gone badly if they had ignored orders to back off. Personally, I think the officers closest to the situation should have taken charge and overruled the scene commander because they had more insight into what was occurring. But I'm not going to sit in judgement of the police for following the orders they were receiving, even though it turned out to be the wrong call.

 

It just makes me think of all those videos where cops are acting like total badasses while a group of them harasses, beats, tazers, chokes, and sometimes shoot unarmed citizens … complete with witty phrases like “you’re about to ride the lightning”… but put them a situation where they are paid to put their own lives on the line to protect citizens… and it’s like “let’s just wait this out and maybe he’ll use up all his bullets on those kids”….

 

Well that’s one of the worst things I’ve ever watched.

An entire hallway of grown men LEO, doing nothing.

That’s so shameful I can’t even muster up snark.

I’m a teacher so I have a hard bias. Having said that, I can’t imagine even wanting to continue to live knowing a single one of my kids died while I protected myself.

 

That absolutely does not sound like full auto or a bump stock.

One of the things that's been blowing up is one of the cops with full plates sitting there hiding around the corner while looking at his phone with a Punisher logo on it. If that ain't the situation in a nutshell I don't know what is.

 

Was it verified that the doors were unlocked to the classrooms . Didn’t watch vid yet if it was covered

 

That's generally the idea behind the training that developed post-columbine where if there is an active shooter situation in a school, cops are to immediately go in and engage the shooter.

 

Yes but training and protocols are worthless if they don't prepare people for the mental aspects of truly being involved in an active situation. You can train on formations and cover etc but none of that emphasizes the emotional aspect of it. Some don't realize the potential until they are in it. Then there is the command leader who has control of the whole operation. It can get convoluted because people are typically trained to follow commands or else screw the effort up even more. I'm not defending these cops mind you but I see how they could explain their actions, not justify them.

 

Running active shooter training classroom and walk throughs are very different training than being shot with paintballs or simmunitions at the same time.

Not sure if I ever watched any active shooter training involving breaching or using secondary teams for distractions. Normally once you have that many people present the decision making process changes. Clearly the School Chief of 5 people shouldn’t have been in charge, but really it shouldn’t have gotten that far.
Think of the guy who asked permission to shoot, but then step back. They were asking permission to shoot an unchallenged person with a gun? School shootings are rare and this guy was unsure.
Training costs money. Does anyone think 8 hours of training a year accomplishes much. Classroom, breaks, lunch, probably an hour of actual training.
Cops aren’t operators
Once they had the initial slow down, for whatever reason, potential energy was just potential.

On day 1, once the time delay was obvious, it was clear it would get uglier when the hall video with sound came out. Ymmv

 

I don't disagree. Many of these cops and even the training see them as some kind of "soldier," and they arm and equip them as such, but the fact of the matter is they aren't. The system they exist in is broken in many ways, and the people who usually pay for it are the law abiding.

 

We actually had active shooter training last week at a local high-school in conjuction with our police dept. Our portion was pretty basic and I don't know what other supportive training LEO had but the tone was somewhat serious during the drill although overall pretty casual.

We had mannequins with fake blood splatter but there were a couple of jokes made along the way. After training I asked my crew if they really truly imagined what we would see during a live event. Not that we should dwell on it but in my opinion we should be imagining looking at actual kids and adults to try and grasp the gravity of it all. I imagine many won't do that and will freeze up when the time comes.

 

I have no problem with the idea that a person wasn't up to the task; that somehow the training didn't quite get one over the hump of being able to properly process a real-life threat. That sucks, but it's human nature in some cases.

I have a problem with, if/when that happens, not asking for help from folks who are willing to get over that hump (or at least seeking said help). I have a problem with covering up what happened on that day because you don't want to look bad. You can't simply say "I'm too scared to do it" and at the same time say "but you're not allowed to do it either." That's the frustrating part.

Fearing for your life is understandable; I think many of us think that our desire to help the kids would exceed our desire for self-preservation. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not, but it becomes a different type of problem when you fail to act and you don't make the connections to help somebody else act that is willing and able to do so. That is no longer a self-preservation issue.

The lack of transparency makes it impossible to accurately pick out who is responsible. This, to me, should be a burden on each and every one of them that supports the lack of transparency, in my view.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

They are cops. They have literally signed up for it. This is THE JOB. Dealing with the worst that an armed to the max free society of almost 400M can cook up.

All these LEO’s whose job is specifically this choked out at the only time it actually mattered.

Solution: Mrs. Williams should have a hand canon. It’s just common sense that teachers are also LEO, except better. Prolly gonna have to take a pay cut though, gonna cost the county a fortune to insure the liability of yet another handout to these lazy ass teachers.

 

may as well be accessories to murder as they did NOTHING for an hour

 

We all want real time transparency, lol, it will all come out. Still waiting for the radio traffic and/or cell messages. going to be a number of shoes yet to drop.

 

I'm not sure what the latest is, but the city literally lawyered up to try to fight having to release information. How does the community benefit from that?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

I think at a minimum you have to fire every single cop who was on location.

 

It doesn’t. That is lawyers trying to limit the release/liability until they know what everything says. Notgoing to work.

What the are trying to do now is get everything together, video, witness statements, radio traffic and fact check them against each other. Which is what they should have done before that first shat show pr presser. Ducks in a row.

I remember watching a show interviewing some young Rangers(?) after Somalia, one Guy was talking about being behind a wall with his team trying to figure a plan to assault a building they were taking fire from. He goes, then some bearded old dudes came walking right by us, threw some grenades, shot everyone inside, then walked out and headed to the next building.

 

I read somewhere there was what appeared to be a “hellfire” trigger device with a similar to a bump stock recoil. I don’t know anything about those. Maybe someone here does.

 

On the AR-15 platforms, you essentially have a couple of things that can facilitate higher rates of fire that aren't truly full auto NFA items. Bump stocks are one, which essentially harness the recoil energy of the rifle and a consistent forward push with the support hand to "bump" the trigger. You can accomplish this with a belt loop, shoelace, or other things if you know what you're doing. Binary triggers are another, and those simply fire on both the trigger pull and the trigger release. A third is what is an assisted reset trigger. assisted reset triggers harness the motion of the bolt to push the trigger back forward faster so that it is ready to fire sooner. With either binary or the assisted reset types, if you get the rhythm of the gun cycling down, you can fire significantly faster fairly easily. None of them will result in the gun emptying the magazine if you just hold the trigger down.

All that said, the video sounded to me just like someone pulling the trigger fast unassisted.