New law to curb retail theft

I will withhold judgment until I see actual evidence of a big spike in retail theft. Similar claims in the past have not always hold up to scrutiny. Brick-and-mortar retailers understandably see online as an existential threat. This may be more a way to try to handicap online sales. I feel for brick-and-mortar retailers. They didn't necessarily get worse at what they did, they were hurt by technology. At the same time, they have been shown to greatly exaggerate theft statistics to justify other agendas

 

Here's a thought.. how about they arrest these thieves... charges the thieves with crimes... and keep them in jail until they go to court, or until the BOND OUT OF JAIL.

 

Those people will have the funds to bond out immediately. They won't even be changed into jail clothes or put into population.

 

That seems a better and more effective alternative ….. if they can be identified and apprehended.

 

What are you talking about? Known criminals get arrested. Unknown criminals do not.

 

Eh, not necessarily. Security at big box stores aren't allowed to do much to shoplifters for fear of litigation. When I worker at Target years ago it was a big talking point.

 

As long as we are drawing up laws to catch and more strenuously enforce retail theft, which is already illegal, let's also do wage theft. Some EPI data and suggestions


What this report finds: Each year millions of workers across the country are victims of wage theft—meaning they are paid less than the full wages to which they are legally entitled. Between 2017 and 2020, more than $3 billion in stolen wages was recovered on behalf of workers by the U.S. Department of Labor, state departments of labor and attorneys general, and through class and collective action litigation.

Why it matters: This staggering amount represents just a small portion of wages stolen from workers across the country. And while wage theft impacts workers broadly, it disproportionately affects low-wage workers, many of whom already are struggling to make ends meet. Wage theft also disproportionately impacts women, people of color, and immigrant workers because they are more likely than other workers to be in low-wage jobs. Finally, these stolen wages hurt local economies and tax revenues.

What can be done about it: Increase funding for the Department of Labor’s Wage and Hour Division to boost institutional and investigative capacity; engage in proactive and strategic enforcement in those industries where violations are especially severe or rampant; enhance civil monetary penalties for wage and hour violations; protect worker rights to collective action, as union workers are less likely to experience wage theft because they have the bargaining power to establish mechanisms to combat the practice; and strengthen and boost funding for state and local enforcement.

More than $3 billion in stolen wages recovered for workers between 2017 and 2020


Note the last bolding. We only enforce wage theft through "civil and monetary penalties", not criminal sanctions. Even advocacy groups dare not suggest that, because they know its a political nonstarter and will never occur. Given the identity of the victims and especially the identity of the perpetrators, this just isn't the kind of "theft" we consider "criminal"

 

More propaganda on supposedly increasing retail theft


US retailers pare store locations, hours due to increase in theft
US retailers pare store locations, hours due to increase in theft - Tampa Bay Times


Provocative headline - stores closing due to retail theft. Read further and you see that the linkage is entirely self reported and not supported by actual metrics

The report underscores the stepped-up complaints about worsening crime from retailers including Target, Nordstrom and Dick’s Sporting Goods. At the same time, the NRF study adds broader financial context, saying total losses from shrink —an industry term that includes external theft — edged up to 1.6% of sales last year. That was higher than the 1.4% shrink rate in 2021 but in line with the numbers from 2019 and 2020.


In 2022, external theft accounted for 36% of shrink, down a percentage point from the year before, according to the NRF. That includes organized retail crime, which the trade group defines as theft or fraud geared toward financial gain as opposed to personal use. Such activity typically involves a criminal enterprise that oversees large-scale theft from multiple stores.

Another 29% of shrink came from internal theft, in line with last year, the trade group said. About 27% was due to “process, control failures and errors,” roughly a percentage point more than in 2021. The rest came from unknown causes or other factors.

So retail theft is actually a bit down, shrinkage from other factors up, but scary language about “criminal enterprise(s)” and management telling PR companies that send prepackaged stories to underresourced media that store closings are due to retail theft rings, leading DT to talk about shooting shoplifters. Remember, it’s the people that don’t look like you that cause all problems, and violence is appropriate.

But no doubt that brick and mortar retailers are suffering. We can see the evidence of closed storefronts with our own eyes. But could there be another more logical explanation for the reduction in brick and mortar retail not attributable to people that don’t look like us that we need to shoot?

An article on the next page suggests another explanation, one supported by actual evidence and logic.

What to know about the FTC’s antitrust lawsuit against Amazon
What to know about the FTC’s antitrust lawsuit against Amazon - Tampa Bay Times





A long-anticipated government antitrust lawsuit against Amazon was filed on Tuesday.Here’s what you need to know about what the U.S. government claims Amazon did wrong, the company’s response and how this lawsuit might affect you.

At its core, U.S. Federal Trade Commission v. Amazon is an alternative narrative about one of the country’s most successful companies.

The image of Amazon in many people’s minds is a company that gives Americans a wide selection of products at low prices that we can buy from our sofas and have delivered quickly to our doors.

In the government’s view, Amazon is an illegal monopoly that stifles technological innovation, makes shopping worse and drives up prices for Americans to gobble more power for itself.


I use Amazon all the time and value it. Maybe the rise is overall a good thing. And maybe management at brick and mortar retailers don’t deserve too much blame, just victims of technological change and the so called creative destruction. But my sympathy is limited by planted PR line this which feeds into hatreds and hurts others

 

Arresting people requires probable cause and their being caught first. Far more often than not, the alleged perp hasn't been identified or they don't have pc for an arrest. Less than 20% of all thefts (burglary, larceny, auto theft) lead to an arrest.

 

I don't have a problem with this law. Online theft is wildly underreported. Also, local po po won't take reports due to jurisdictional issues or lack of desire or ability to nab online thieves. Online retailers like amazon, or even your bank will most often refund the amount you lost and don't report the crime to police (and don't investigate it themselves either).

Other hand, I'm skeptical of what retailers report regarding losses. Often they leave out of their shrinkage #s that a considerable percentage comes from internal/employee theft. NTM, as of 2021, larceny rates are still at historic lows.

 

I didn't read enough about the actual law to know whether I support it. I'm just talking about the political movement. Trump now has added a line to his speech about shooting shoplifters, which tells me that this is become a bit of a thing in right wing media. It was also used to supposedly talk about the lawlessness of San Francisco during the recall election of the DA. I'm sure it's an issue to some degree but I don't know if it's more of an issue than before, but it's being used politically

 

I thought they were going to require a business license to steal.

 

Might work. I own a demolition company working mostly in the commercial industry. Long time ago when we got to a job there would be all kind of scrap. Than people starting stealing everything. Now for some scrap-a/c's etc, the scrap yard no longer pays cash and pays by check only and it is mailed so there is a record of who turned in what and where they live. Makes a little harder for them so they have probably moved on to stuff to steal thats easier.

 

I hear you. Never a day goes by without some politico exaggerating and distorting crime issues. Been dealing with this nonsense directly for decades.

I'm not so sure about how deep the problem is regarding brick & mortar retail theft is, but the numbers don't reflect the reporting, which of course leads with blasting high profile incidents. Several weeks ago there was a thread on here about it that led with how bad it was (in SF Bay area) but the article was thin on facts about theft, pivoting toward problem w/incivility and violence in stores.

 

Generally speaking, I don't think people who are supposedly presumed innocent should have to sit in jail pending trial on the sole basis that they can't afford to pay for their pre-trial freedom. I suppose I'm in the minority there given the current status of the law.

With respect to theft, the amount involved and level of force used, if any, are going to be factors. The flash mob or gang robberies may not be on the scale of the Lufthansa Heist, but we're talking about lots of money and coordination in some cases. I consider that to be organized crime and think it should be treated as such. If weapons are utilized or if a victim is physically harmed, those factors also matter to me in terms of additional charges and sentencing upon conviction.

 

it also discourages shoppers from visiting the stores for fear of beign caught up in that sort of thing. I found these fog systems to be interesting.

Machine deploys fog in retail stores to deter burglars - CBS Chicago (cbsnews.com)

We ran the numbers. Both theft and robbery are up this year in Chicago.

Theft is at the highest level we have seen since 2019, robbery at the highest level since 2018.

 

I think bonding out of jail for an arrest... caught red-handed in a "supposed" crime is fair. And that should depend on their record... type of theft of crime that these people are getting caught for...

 

If they're on probation, for example, I could see a different argument there maybe. If someone with a clean record is accused of a non violent theft (and therefore presumed innocent), I think an ankle monitor or some other monitoring tools that could be justified would be sufficient. If somebody is ROR'ed pending trial and flees the jurisdiction, I would come down on them pretty hard when caught. Throwing the accused in a cage pre-trial seems pretty draconian to me if the only thing they would need to avoid that incarceration is paying money they don't have. That's particularly true given the crowded, disgusting, and dangerous conditions in many of our jails.

 

Def an interesting technology. Seems like it can be an effective deterrent.