Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

He doesn’t even know that Egypt governed Gaza and doesn’t want it back.

 

I’m not entirely sure they knew. Israel didn’t know. It was obviously kept very hush hush. We have several links posted so far where Iran is saying they didn’t know. I’d like to see a little more proof (beyond just taking your word for it) before assuming they knew.

 

But but but oppressors and occupiers

 

I applaud your skepticism. There is a 99.99% chance we will never have full undeniable proof. As I mentioned, Iranian intelligence is first rate and likely avoided anything direct. To me, the most compelling reasoning is how Hamas exists. Money, weapons, ability to bring in food etc all come from Iran. Their leadership is like a mafia. If they don’t do what they are told ( by Iran) they are eliminated/whacked. Knowing that, does anyone really think Hamas leadership is likely to plan, fund and execute something of this magnitude without the full knowledge and green light of their master knowing whats at stake ? I say no chance.

 

That’s right. They don’t. Sadat said no deal in 1979 if they had to take back Gaza. But that’s the answer, and we need to figure out what Egypt’s price is. You know they have one.

 

Just to be clear what is happening. Israel is a vulnerable country. It has 9 million people and right now 5% if the country is in active military service. Jews have been killed in pogroms and genocidal attacks for 2500 years. At least Since the destruction of the first temple. The Holocaust is the most recent example and the motto of Jews is “never again.” Iran is its primary enemy. As is Hezbollah, it’s proxy in Lebanon and Syria. Israel has a cold peace with Jordan and Egypt. It cannot be sure that if there is a perception of vulnerability that these nations and groups will not attack Israel. In 1995, the peace treaty being negotiated was scuttled by Hamas Bombings. In 1999, Bill Clinton had a deal on the table. Yasser Arafat refused to sign it. He didn’t want to be assassinated. So, the cause for no peace deal with the Palestinians is the Palestinians. And now these horrific attacks occurred by a party that avows the destruction of Israel and the death of Jews everywhere. Hamas is finished governing Gaza. They have left Israel no choice. Israel cannot allow them to govern Gaza anymore or negotiate a cease fire because: a) this can’t happen again; and b) that perception of weakness will embolden their enemies. Hamas knows this. Which is why Hamas took hostages. Hamas wants to exploit what they see as the weakness in compassion. You are now seeing and are about to see what “never again” means. This isn’t going to be what you have seen before. This is an existential issue for Israel and Jews everywhere. Hamas, by itself, cannot destroy Israel. Jews aren’t going to be slaughtered to satisfy people like you who blame them for the slaughter.

 

. Israel tried to give it back then. Just like they offered the entire West Bank and Golan in 1967 in exchange for peace and that was rejected. And negotiated a deal in 1999 until Arafat walked away because he knew the Palestinians didn’t want a deal and he would have been killed. And the money from other countries would dry up. So the borders have remained the 1967 and 1973 armistice lines.
I am not sure taking Gaza is worth it to Egypt. Hamas is aligned with (and basically probably is in common with) the Muslim brotherhood. And many Gazans are Egyptians by heritage. I don’t now what would make it worth it for Egypt. But it is a good idea.

 

Yea, I tend to agree now that I can see it. I was thinking of Omar’s statement, which was peace for all. Tlaib’s statement was flat wrong. Flying the flag was OK, but not that statement

 

I agree with most of that but leaving out the assassination of Rabin and plenty of other action to defeat the possibility of peace with facts on the ground doesn’t truthfully portray

 

After Rabin was assassinated, a deal was close. 4 Hamas bombings killed it. They key here is for Israel to succeed in its stated goal of eliminating Hamas’ military capability (which translates to regime change) and identify a system for governing Gaza. My vote wound be to return it To Egypt— which would be legitimate and a negotiated end of to the 1973 war by returning Gaza to the pre-1967 borders. But it will be costly. Egypt would have to be very highly compensated

 

@CaptUSMCNole: welcome back. Been awhile.

 

Hamas is not going to do anything to upset their biggest patron. The idea that the Iranians where not at least aware of the planning is laughable. Doing something this brazen by Hamas leadership without telling their Iranian patrons is a good way to end up dead through a very terrible and slow means.

 

Hamas had sophisticated help in Blinding Israel’s Early warning system at the border

 

I think your post #1162 in this thread is the most concise and best post on this subject I've read in a while and will probably be quoting on this subject. Well done.

This is who Hamas, the Taliban, and ISIS and their like have always been. It just been the first time they were dumb enough to live stream it on social media to tell it to the world. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

There is no longer anyway Israel can allow Hamas to remain in Gaza. This is going to get ugly but I hope the civilized world stays strong and has Israel's back through the course of this war.

 

Upthread, I posted Hamas’ Charter. You are correct

 

Coalition government = he's in charge with all checks and balances gone.

 

This was clearly part of Iran's and Hamas' efforts to prevent a diplomatic deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel, which has reportedly very close to becoming reality. If that deal had been made, it was a bright flashing green light for every Sunni Gulf states that the Palestinian issue is over and it is opening season for doing business with Israel in the open. The Sunni Gulf states want access to the Israeli market for technology and private equity investment. There is a reason Israel has been called Start Up Nation. A deal with Israel and moving on from the Palestine issue also allows the Sunni Gulf states to all work together to counter Iranian ambitions in the region. We'll see if this attack prevents that deal from being done.

 

Do you have a link for this?

 

False. It’s a good thing. He’s sharing power with the opposition party in order to have national unity in prosecuting the war. Sorry that doesn’t fit the narrative.

 

No. I have a source.