Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Maybe the reason things are swinging right is that even sensible people like you agree with a fascistic world view, that violence, dominance and strength make people safe, that certain groups of people are always going to be in a sort of war of religion, ethnicity, race whatever. If there is no alternative, no one saying things can be different, that each nation or people has a right to fulfill its own destiny violently as a matter of self-preservation, people are going to line up with the people that are less apologetic in their ruthlessness and barbarism. If liberals are simply going to present themselves as a kinder, gentler face of fascism, what is the point of anything?

 

As long as the world has borders, there will be war. It is the gene of humanity.

 

Good case against borders! And there's nothing in DNA that makes any of this inevitable.

 

No one, literally no one on this board is or ever has "cheered for Hamas."
Are you really that daft?

 

On this topic, generally yes. Anyone that criticizes Israel's strategy in the war has been either described as naive, stupid, or a card carrying member of Hamas.

 

Have you not seen the protests, in front of the White House, all over the World? People cheering for Hamas, by name? I’m happy to send you some Twitter snippets, of you don’t think this is happening all over.

 

Hell, I've been called an antisemite more than once on this board for being critical of Netanyahu's genocidal holocaust. Just sad.

 

Since he said "on this board" you would probably have to prove those people are posting on this forum to prove him wrong

 

Probably because you are making up garbage about a "genocidal holocaust". Don't be upset when you give people only 2 choices of how to view your insane take on this. It's either you being ignorant or you are an antisemite. You pick.

 

Hard to say whether it's more amazing to see this complete fabrication of what a quoted poster said......or that it got a favorable rating.

The quoting poster may note, if he cares to, that the quoted poster actually said absolutely NOTHING about "blaming Israel for killing the people holding the hostages."

What a laughable strawman. Who would descend to such feeble debate tactics? Now, on the other hand, the quoted poster made a point that is very worthy of debate; is the collateral damage (killed civilians) excessive. Sad to see that debate worthy point get dishonestly mischaracterized.

Be better.

 

Your response (calls me out) and is quite thought provoking. Yes, at the end of the day, each of us has a choice to exercise what little agency we may have to offer, hopefully to make the world a better place for not only humans, but all living things.

Please do not presume to say (people like you (me) agree with a fascist world view). I would think you would at least consider my posting history before clubbing me over the head like that. I pride myself on having a progressive, liberal point of view, in supporting people whom have "less", the everyman, working people, UNIONS, and those that deserve respect and decency, in every walk of life. That does not mean I walk around in a hypnotic daze as to what the world is really like.

Am I guilty of reviewing history and the facts of reality that surround me every day, about humanity, and posting to those things: YES

Of course, to take it a step further, am I willing to sacrifice life and limb to put forward my world view, or a shared view by another entity?
(Let me ask wg, since you called me out, ARE YOU?).

For me it depends on how bad it gets and what is at stake. I support Democratic Candidates and Ukraine independence financially
and through information dissimination, of course those things on my part are pathetically miniscule.

Going January 6th and breaking into the capital for a cause? Not quite there YET. Lets see what happens in November.

 

Look there is a difference between being an actual fascist and having a world view that basically agrees with theirs, one where human conflict and competition for resources is inevitable, that people that think otherwise are naive hippies or something. If there is no alternative then politics are just going to be the mean guys who will do whatever it takes no matter the blood spilled vs the nice guys worried about appearances, married to process and troubled by guilt that agree on the same basic barbarism. Israel is a perfect example of where this goes. People talk about Bibi, but anyone capable of replacing him has basically the same outlook!

 

Glyphosate ..... one must eradicate the roots of the plant that creates the "seeds of hate". It may take several applications as there may be seeds already spread that will still germinate after the plant is dead. I think this is what Israel knows and the rest of the world should learn.

 

This is a metaphor for doing genocide, congratulations!

 

Hi phat -
Thoughtful as always. In conversations with some Jewish friends we kicked around "what if" israel had occupied Gaza and the West bank in 73 and just kicked the
Arabs out permanently. Draconia for sure, but given the realities of that region since 48, one has to wonder if it would have been a net positive.

Personally I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible for these two cultures to live and prosper alongside of each other. Just impossible.
I do think 1/2 of Jewish society is tiring of the continuing madness of the situation. I think there is NO CHANCE that
Arab counties will ever honor territorial treaties and respect jewish culture, however. Not as long as the Suny's and the Shia hold political sway,
it just seems impossible to me.

 

I have oft considered "what if" - What if Europeans had adopted an Indiginous Indian view of "land" as compared to "Real Estate" and sharing the "land" equitably.
A Fools thought in the Western World now sure, but thought provoking neverthless.

 

Keep in mind that the noncombatants were killed only after Hamas opened fire on the rescuers as they were leaving. Up to that point, only people who are actively holding the hostages had been killed. Once rescued if they had just been allowed to leave, no one else dies.

As already pointed out, we don’t know how many of the noncombatants killed were killed by Hamas weapons.

Do you think it was immoral to try to rescue the hostages? Do you believe the moral thing to do when fired upon would’ve been to surrender and create more hostages?

 

Swing and a miss. The poster literally said "innocents" in his post. Take it up with him. And many of the so called "innocents" aren't innocent at all. Try again. I'd say be better but we both know that isn't happening.

 

Yours is an interesting post. Of course the pulling weeds euphemism is a "pat" reply and does not address the many and varied social and ideological points of view that shape peoples opinions and actions.

lets go a step further, look at a few examples:

Germany and the Nazis - The National Socialist movement was pretty much kaput (albeit not dead) when Hitler committed suicide and within a couple of years of occupation. Of course the irradication of this virulent form of politics cost what? 60 million dead x 3 injured? Nor was it completely eradicated in that vestiges of it still exist in Germany and other parts of the World. Didn't quite pull all those weeds but came close.

The American Civil War - I would suggest to the poster and anyone reading, the Southern Cause has never been fully extinguished.
My evidence: Jim Crow and all it's manifestations right up to the present day. Clearly all the "weeds" did not get pulled.

Afganistan, the Mujahideen, the Tailaban and every other Islamic derivitive that ever rules that country:
Well these folks have been fighting against the "World" ever since Bronze and Tin were discovered in quantity there 3,000 years ago.
The British Empire, Russia, The USA - and thats just the short list the last 150 years.
All three of the empires listed above evacuated, tail between legs, another case of "weeds" that did not get pulled.

and on and on it goes.

My point being, while it would suit my way of thinking if Hamas was forever put out of action...........I don't see that as even being a remote possability.
A nice talking point by Bibi, but thats all it is, TALK, the reality will bear out the futility of those words.

 

One slight correction. I think you might be referring to the border changes in 1968 rather than 1973. In 1973 I spent six weeks in Israel, a lot of it in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. I left a few weeks before the Yom Kippur war.

I don’t think Israel needed to kick out the Arabs from those new newly claimed areas. There are Arab Israeli citizens today. If they had made the residence of those areas Israeli citizens and not treated the areas as occupied, the world today would just consider that part of Israel.

Back around 2000 I ate lunch every day at a Subway that was run by a young Palestinian. One day I suggested that Jordan and Syria get together and carve out some land for the Palestinians to have their own homeland. His eyes lit up and said, “You get it. That’s it.”

For all the bellicose support that other Arab countries have given to the Palestinians, they’ve never offered their own land.