Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Or rescuing their own hostages alive!

 

But, there really is no answer, beyond Israel choosing defeat over protecting it’s citizens/sovereignty, that doesn’t involve Palestinian civilians being killed. Mostly due to the tactics being used by Hamas.
I absolutely get the point of everyone being horrified by the civilian deaths. I certainly am, as well. I just don’t see any real options, beyond Israel essentially allowing their own withdrawal, which equates to defeat. There just is no morally good answer imo.

 

This would be a wonderful first step.

 

Why doesn’t Hamas start the peace process by declaring it’s own ceasefire, and releasing all Israeli prisoners?

 

There are two answers really (if the 2 state solution is indeed dead). Israel ethnically cleanses its non Jewish population in Gaza/Occupied territories (which was well underway with the right-wing governments arming settlers but they appear to be seizing the opportunity to speed up the process) or incorporating the non-Jewish population outside Israel proper as full and equal citizens (which will not happen under its bigoted right-wing apartheid government, because that would basically be the 'end' of Israel as an ethnonational Jewish state). The question for Americans is do they want to fund a genocidal ethnonationalist project in the middle east and make Jews and Americans around the world less safe and more hated once the die is cast. We have a choice in that matter.

 

This is a good explanation for anyone on here trying to say "both sides are bad".

 

This is from this morning’s NYT newsletter with David Leonhardt and is what our own government advocates. It is conceptual but does not appear to be being followed. And fair or not, world opinion matters, much moreso for the US and all our interests.

I am not aware of any way to link to this


There is a potential middle ground in which Israel tries to root out Hamas while also reducing civilian casualties. (Israel says it is pursuing this strategy; Gaza officials say Israel has shown a disregard for Palestinian lives.) One way for Israel to do so would be to use more ground troops around hospitals, Julian says, but that approach would have its own downside by exposing Israeli troops to more danger.

U.S. officials have advocated a version of this middle ground. It would involve allowing more humanitarian aid into Gaza than Israel has allowed so far and not attacking hospitals where patients are still receiving treatment, U.S. officials say. “Hospitals must be protected,” President Biden said yesterday.

Jake Sullivan, Biden’s national security adviser, has gone into more detail: “The United States does not want to see firefights in hospitals, where innocent people, patients receiving medical care, are caught in the crossfire.” But Sullivan also said that Hamas continued to use hospitals and other civilian buildings as “human shields” — which underscores that war often involves horrific trade-offs.

 

This is just friendly advice unless we threaten funding or attach strings to it, which we aren't doing.

 

I was curious about the numbers. This is what I see. Correct me if I'm wrong.

100 UN employees killed in Gaza
UN mourns record death toll in war with over 100 employees killed in Gaza

42 Journalists in Gaza
Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war - Committee to Protect Journalists

11,000+ civilians in Gaza (Note source)
Blinken says 'far too many' Palestinians have died as Israel wages relentless war on Hamas

6,000 Bombs dropped during the first week of the conflict
Israeli Air Force Says It Has Dropped 6,000 Bombs on Gaza

20 Hospitals knocked out of commission, 31 ambulances wrecked, 190 health staff killed. (Note source)
Hospitals have special protection under the rules of war. Why are they in the crosshairs in Gaza?

1,400,000 Gaza residents displaced
In Gaza's widening humanitarian crisis, water access becomes dire

3 liters per person per day of clean water
In Gaza's widening humanitarian crisis, water access becomes dire

 

yikes

 

^^^ this kinda shit is doing the Israeli people no good. Hamas claims she was killed in an Israeli airstrike. IDF says they cannot determine how she died. That social media post claims outright that she was executed. Now I'm not saying I believe Hamas here even through for some hostages to die in airstrikes is completely expected/unavoidable. Why claim she was executed when the IDF says they don't know? I feel like I'm being inundated with propaganda.

Hamas Releases Video of Hostage Noa Marciano, Saying She Was Killed in Gaza Bombardments

 

I hear you but that propaganda is very effective on me. Whenever I see a face like that or a family that they killed, I tend to lose my ability to view the situation rationally through a policy lens.

Of course, there are stories like that of Palestinians that we don't see, or at least I don't, though I would be open to it.

This story breaks me regularly, and I have to get away from it for a time. Which of course is a luxury that those in Israel and especially Gaza do not have. Almost all of them know victims personally or though very few degrees of separation.

 

They needn’t exaggerate what Hamas has done to get sympathy. It only serves to diminish their future credibility. It’s bad enough that she was kidnapped and died.

 

Correct on a rational level. But we overestimate our own rationality

 

No idea what you’re saying here. What does their saying she was executed when there is nothing to corroborate that have to do with rationality? It’s just dishonest.

 

Not getting into the facts of the exact cause of death, just the heartbreak of the loss of a young innocent. Like I said, it hits me at least at a primal level.

In the interim, I respect but do not usually agree with Karen Attiah on this issue, but she is dead on here

 

they need to evacuate the hospital under UN inspection through a clear corridor to a field hospital in Egypt or hospital ship offshore. If HAMAS wants to shoot UN or Qatari or Egyptian workers doing evacuation, then the world needs to see that.

 

I hear you, though not sure I would want to volunteer to be one of those workers

 

egyptian army? un peacekeepers? someone needs to step up

 

Then what happens on day 6?