Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

How does that make the ADL the number 1 driver of anti-semitism in the country?

 

Oops! Some days things just don’t turn out the way you thought, and Allah really isn’t on your side.
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_vide.../vid/avc1/306x270/opC0b3YP_jbcp4cz.mp4?tag=12

 

I think he’s saying they equate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism, not that they are responsible for anti-semitism.

 

It did happen. They weren't protesting Israel retaliating. You look so foolish for going down this road. Just call it like it is. They were celebrating Hamas killing Jews. That is a you problem.

 

I dont know, I didnt make that claim, I said they are the ones primarily responsible for equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism in this country, maybe my post wasnt articulate enough, my apologies if it wasnt .

 

Although your rationale is slightly different you're in agreement with the anti-Semites on the right. Who would have thought?

Sorry about the delayed reply. I don't think the Meir meant that average Palestinians are willing to sacrifice their children because they hate Israel. What she most likely meant was that the leadership of a good part of the the Palestinian movement of which Hamas is currently a prime example is willing to turn ordinary Palestinians including children into martyrs if it would further their movement. Speaking hypothetically do you think Hamas would agree to disarmament along with permitting the Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza in exchange for the cessation of hostilities by Israel?

By the way the quote from Ben Gurion while accurate was most likely taken out of context considering that he was a leader of the Zionist movement long before World War II and the Holocaust.

 

Well mainly just you and other people who disagree with me, I'm certainly not in agreement with right-wing anti-Semites, many of them Israel supporters (mainly because dead Muslims fits in their world view, and Israel is a model right-wing nationalist project in their treatment of religious & ethnic minorities and its other apartheid elements). The run of the mill Nazi Nick Fuentes types just want dead Jews, I don't want dead anyone, I want people to live in peace, and end the scourge of nationalism and imperial domination.

 

In other words, a man who understood what being called a terrorist by a colonial power meant

 

I think you're confusing David Ben Gurion with Menachem Begin who was in fact a terrorist. Ben Gurion didn't have a history of terrorism although I wouldn't rule the possibility that the Brits may have referred to him as terrorist.

 

That's the point I was making, I don't think he was an actual resistance fighter or anything, just someone who probably understood how colonial powers felt about troublesome elements.

 

No possible way any long term modus vivendi can be negotiated with Hamas. Impossible. Out of the question. They must be removed. Parenthetically, Hamas as an organization is not natively “Palestinian “, to the extent one can draw clear lines, which is never perfectly possible. Traditional Palestinians, i.e., non-Christians and non-Jews that inhabited the land pre-1948 along with Christians and Jews, were largely secular without much in the way of an Islamist mindset about the land. Hamas came out of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, who hated that Egypt, once the front line of “resistance” against the “Zionists”, made peace. The movement was part of who assassinated Sadat.

But I don’t know anyway to understand the decontextualized invocation of the Meir quote other than to suggest that there is something constitutive in the Palestinian soul that would rather kill Jews than have peace. That is what I pushed back on. As of October 7, 2023 as Hamas, that is no doubt true. But it wasn’t before and most likely won’t be in the future.

Those who say past grievances never go away don’t think of obvious contrary examples like the British and French, at war for centuries with deep hatred. Resentments remain, occasionally manifesting in ways like Brexit. But no killing.

Hamas did everything it could to create a long lasting memory that destroys and salts the conditions for peace. The did a lot to destroy the possibility in any reasonable timeframe, by design. But in the end, there must be some form of relatively peaceful coexistence.

It doesn’t have to be warm, but it can’t be hot. I suspect the Israelis thought they could reach some type of reservation relationship like the US did to the tribes. And it looked trending that way and may yet. But those trends have also been disrupted.

Of course Ben-Gurion’s numerous statements require context. Said so myself. But if the point is going to be made about the eternally belligerent Palestinian soul in 2023, that quote is equally valid to explain current events as one from 1973. Which is to say, only slightly, unless in the hands of good faith peacemakers.

 

Glad to be wrong, at least for now. If you think I was the only one that thought today could signal a larger war, look at the second tweet about conditions in Lebanon before the speech

 

‎The Ezra Klein Show: She Polled Gazans on Oct. 6. Here’s What She Found. on Apple Podcasts

This episode has results of polling of Palestinians the week before the attacks. As usual, it’s complicated.

I think about 27% would support HAMAS if there was an election. An even smaller amount would support Abbas from Palestinian authority. The highest percent is a guy who is in an Israeli jail for acts of terrorism, supposedly because he is an anticorruption candidate.

In polls about what solution Gazans prefer among several, a 2 state solution was not a majority. None of the above/fight was about 20%. Other polls have shown higher percents in the militant category.

On the surface HAMAS does not have a majorty of support, but at the same time it isn’t exactly a mandate for shared peace. That is discouraging, but I’m not sure one should be surprised given the long shitty conditions they’ve lived in and less than enthusiastic efforts on both sides for peace.

It is informative but the results can be construed to support whatever ones preferred view is of the Palestinian complicity in Hamas’s actions.

 

Pump some nitrous oxide into them and they’ll come out laughing.

 

to add to that. Hamas does NOT get its funding from the people, so there is no need nor interest in gaining support from them.

 

Almost all accurate. I am out surprised. His statement was the same as “we are going to stand down.” Bear in mind that he doesn’t control all factions in Lebanon. Hezbollah doesn’t want to face off with Israel. Period. They fight more conventionally and Israel would degrade them, creating a power vaccum in Lebanon. The second issue is that the United States is also in Syria. And Hezbollah cannot afford a mistake in that respect. The third issue is that Hezbollah is actually governing Lebanon. And the fourth issue is a Sunni-Shiite problem

 

Oddly, Israeli money goes to the PA for Gaza

 

JHMO, you provide an appropriate level of warning about interpreting a poll. It is complicated. Polls being what they are don't get at that complication or even permitting understanding in the way the subjects of the poll might understand or see things. With poverty rates north of 50% and the conditions people live in matter...a lot.