Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Yep. And many governments and individuals have also either protested or stated their support of Israel. That is what happens in the world around contentious issues.

They have. But your claim that you believe there are innocent people in Gaza is completely against every other point you are making. You are saying that they aren't innocent because Hamas was elected almost two decades ago in Gaza.

Again, there have been protests against Hamas. Where were you when they happened?

Oh, it absolutely does. You don't need to protest them to oppose them because you aren't Palestinian. But a person who is Palestinian needs to protest them to oppose them and become an innocent. That is the standard you set. Not anybody else.

The problem is that you don't just want to stand on the side of Israel. I have no problem with that, and, on balance, probably do as well. The problem is that you want to grant as much legitimacy as possible to Hamas so that you can justify as much death as possible on Palestinian civilians while still feeling good yourself. You have done so to the point that you have started this double standard that people in that ethnic group have a higher standard for opposition than you do.

 

No one has made that claim. I really think you’re missing the mark on this one. Everyone acknowledges innocent people will be killed.

 

Are they? I’m seeing a lot of comments that suggest the Palestinian people have this coming to them because “they elected Hamas”

 

The nation has blood on its hands because it elected Hamas. Not every single person in the nation voted for Hamas, but the nation elected Hamas.

 

There were, hundreds of Palestinians died fighting to get rid of Hamas. Hamas won that fight.

 

Well it was inevitable when they elected Hamas. I think that’s what’s being said, not that the innocent deserve it.

 

You were saying?

 

No one else is either, forgone conclusion.

 

Dude contra JUST posted that Palestine has blood on their hands. What does that mean exactly? That tells me he thinks they have culpability which would mean they are not innocent.

 

There is some blame there ..no? They did elect Hamas and hav supported them
Over the decades.
That doesn’t mean that we think none of the citizens are innocent. America elected trump.. are YOU guilty of that? I am not.
But if I stand by and support trump, do not protest when he invaded another country, claim we Americans are the innocent poor poor us Canada is the bad guy… well then I’m no longer an innocent .

 

Phil this is not directly a reply to you but your comment is the best to branch this off from.

What I'm about to type is NOT PRO HAMAS. HAMAS is a barbaric, horrendous organization fueled by hate. Period. But it is important to be honest about actual history.

Hamas was elected in 2006, yes. But not to run the entire government. They won a majority in Parliament in a democratic election, but it was for a share of power, similar to the Republican majority in the House right now.

So for one, a little less than half of the voting electorate voted to cede more seats in the Parliament to them (of 132 total seats in Parliament, Hamas won 74, the US preferred Fatah won 45 and the remaining 13 seats went to various smaller groups and independents). Of the total 1,020,737 votes cast, Hamas garnered 440,409 -- quite a few but hardly the overwhelming choice of the Palestinian voting population. This wasn't a case of say 90% of the voters supporting Hamas. Full stop.

Even still, this did not bring the entirety of Gaza into the power of Hamas (the Palestinian president, Arafat's successor, was also opposed to Hamas). In the aftermath of this democratic election what do you assume the US did? If you had orchestrate and support a coup by the Fatah party to strip Hamas of its limited representation, you would be correct. But if you also had institute a blockade on foreign aid after Hamas’s clear but not total legislative victory, a blockade that inadvertently weakend Fatah only (because Hamas' aide came primarily from Iran then as now), you would also be correct.

Fatah, working with the support of the Rice/Bush government, waged a terror campaign against Hamas, kidnapping operatives, torturing them and killing others. And when the US financial backing of Fatah did not come through as promised, Hamas seized the opportunity and took over entirely, forging a stranglehold on Gaza and leading the US and its allies to greatly restrict resources into and within the territory.

Vanity Fair (of all places) published a fantastic piece covering all of this back in 2008 called The Gaza Bombshell. I have feeling there are going to be a few seismic pieces of journalism published in the aftermath of the current conflict as well. I just hope like hell things don't go so catastrophically wrong that the wisdom we may glean from such pieces isn't rendered moot.

Again, HAMAS is a barbaric, horrendous organization fueled by hate. And the impetus for the Bush regime's attempts at the Fatah coup were a direct response to Hamas refusing to amend their 1988 Charter and its refusal to accept Israel as a state and Hamas' insistence on conflating Judaism with zionism. But now as then, the tactics are KEY and the more honest we are about failed tactics in the past perhaps the better we can be about assessing the right and wrong measures taken in the present.

AND the more compassion we can have for at least the children in Palestine, who did not elect any of the barbaric men who committed those indefensible crimes on October 7th.

 

Amazing response.. and one I enjoyed. Well thought out and insightful. In any war, any conflict there are those that suffer for zero reason or fault of their own. It is the tragedy of war. All wars.
My issue right now is with those that act like Israel is at fault or blame because those innocents are suffering. The Arab world is crying “war crimes” against Israel, Palestinians in the US are crying foul and blaming Israel for this war. Where were they when Hamas attacked? Where have they been
Over the years when Hamas launched mussels into Israel and then hid under the hospitals in Gaza? Where were the members of the Squad when those innocent babies were slaughtered and the Hamas terrorist laughed and celebrated? When the women were raped? Where was the outrage at the inhumane treatment of women by Hamas?
So many stayed silent. So
Many in prominent positions. The people of Gaza were given time to leave. The people of Gaza were told a head of time what was going to happen. Israel is not to blame for this war. Hamas and those in Gaza.. those Palestinians that refuse to let go of their racist hastened of the Jews.

 

For Palestine overall, no. There is absolutely zero blame for at least half of all Palestinians. They are children. And MANY if the adults do not support Hamas. So I think it’s safe to say that MOST Palestinians have no blame in what is happening. I think efforts to conflate Hamas with the Palestinian people overall is super shitty.

 

Dude
no one is blaming children.. stop being dramatic. Literally no one EVER blames children. You are stooping low to prove a point that doesn’t need proving.
Clearly those that voted for Hamas have some blame .. yes or no? Those that are still there supporting Hamas have some
Blame yes or no? Those around the world who refuse to condemn the attack by Hamas those that have started blaming Israel and lying about what is happening ( ISRAEL BOMBS HOSPITAL IN GAZA… headlines that were not true…
Hell certain Arab countries STILL blame Israel for that.
We know there are civilians that just want to get up and go to work, spend time with their families…etc.. and no one thinks it is fair that they are suffering.. but the blame for that suffering lies on their felllow countrymen.. not Israel. It lays at the feet of all those that cheer when rockets are fired into Israel, it lays at the feet of all those that hide and provide cover for Hamas terrorist, it lays at the feet of those that voted for a terrorist organization to lead them because of their hatred.. racists hatred, of the Jews.

 

Back when wars were fought to win we killed and injured 200,000 Japanese civilians because we knew it would save millions of US lives. Now they are one of our strongest allies. Since then we keep making the mistake of thinking you can win wars with ‘minimal civilian casualties’. our enemies use that against us and we continually end our conflicts with helicopters on embassy roofs and people Hanging on to landing gear while we ‘withdraw’. Once war starts you make it one sided as possible. Overwhelming force. No ridiculous ‘proportionality . But we won’t. And this will all repeat itself as we keep equivocating.

 

75% of Gazans are too young to have voted for Hamas.

 

Voting for Hamas is just one example of showing support…
Too many Palestinians are quite happy when itHamas sends rockets into Israel.. we didn’t see a lot of Palestinians protesting and speaking out against the terroristic act of act 7th. Again.. support for. Hamas. Is it every Palestinian? No of course not, but far too many are quite when Hamas attacks and murders and mains.. we only hear the poor poor me when Palestinians are being used as humans shields by the very people they cheered on a few weeks ago.

 

Good point. They should pick of the available private schools.