Murder of Jordan Neely on the Subway

I agree with a lot of what you say and support the benefit of the doubt to a squad leader marine with clean service record. I do diverge on the expertise and of the chosen method of restraint. As someone that practices these and others every day once he had him initially subdued someone with more experience would have shifted to having eye contact in a more dominant position knowing that this person was not going to aware enough to ‘tap out’. Any time you find yourself in his position( on his back with no visual or tactile way to confirm the status of the other guy) for too long alarm bells need to be going off as bad things can start happening quickly. Once your arm snakes under the chin anything more than 15 seconds is too long and you need to adjust or risk real harm. I wish no ill
Will towards the marine and understand his call to action, But i fear he knew just enough from the MCMAP to get himself in trouble as being labeled a trained killer but def not an expert at non lethal restraint. Sucks for everyone

 

You’re not hearing what I’m saying. To me (no expert witness but I’ve had the same training as the accused), it looks like he was not applying the choke continuously but only intermittently as the victim struggled to escape. I have no dog in this fight. I don’t know this guy. I have no interest in wishing him well or ill. I do, however, have an interest in not seeing cities burn over a false narrative. That he was choking this guy for three minutes appears to be a false, or if you prefer, an incomplete narrative. As I have said, a blood choke of that nature would render the victim unconscious in about three to five second by cutting the flow of the carotid artery to the brain. The struggling that you see in the brief clips would not be possible if he was applying the choke continuously.

 

A lot of truth in that. He probably did what he knew. Which was the wrong knowledge in this case. I hope I am never put to a similar scenario to find out what I would do.

I don’t think, however, he was waiting for the victim to “tap out” in the sense that you mean. Other bystanders were clearly holding the victims arms. I think (total speculation as to the accuser’s state of mind) he just wanted the victim to go limp and stay compliant while waiting for the proper authorities to arrive. Every time the victim struggles, the accused seems to tense and apply the choke. When the victim relaxes, so too appears the accused.

Does anyone have the full unedited video without commentary by the way? All I can find are news clips that don’t show the whole thing. I need to see it all to determine if my gut instinct is correct.

 

No cities are burning.

 

definitely difficult to tell, and i wasn’t there, but I also have the luxury of having others monitor both participants when we ‘roll around’. As someone with prob more experience, I would have applied it then climbed up and put myself in a dominant position to land strikes or continue to restrain or both. Highly likely the other people ‘helping’ actually hurt his efforts and he became tunnel vision on his hold. Tough call for anyone. Ironically had a long talk with a 25yo Bulgarian I was instructing. After class He had a list of ‘what if a guy was …….., what would you do?” And he was super disappointed that 99% of the time my answer is ‘diffuse, deescalate, and walk away ‘. Even if put his hands up and you knew you could ‘Kick his azz’ and I said yes. I train people to walk away unless there is no other option. I’ve seen Murphy get involved and things getting sideways quickly as demonstrated by this well intended marine

 

Good. Let’s keep it that way. If the accused murdered this man unjustifiably, then let him be accountable. And anyone else directly involved who needs to be held accountable. And no one else.

 

That might happen. And that might be the just outcome. I have not made up my mind yet. There’s a lot I don’t know yet. Let’s let it play out.

 

Easy decision given the fact set. Justice takes its course. If only the same speed applied to ALL defendants (cough Trump).

 

From the limited amount I’ve read, this seems like a reasonable charge. It is still not clear to me exactly how much of a threat the deceased presented to the others in that car. I just don’t know.

 

Whatever the case, I have some degree of sympathy for Penny. Not unlike the cop in MN who thought she was firing a taser, or to some degree the other officers (not Chauvin) on the scene of George Floyd.

In each case you have instances of a failed system, whether it is mental health, law enforcement, or broader socioeconomic forces, including racism. These individuals get caught up in difficult situations, and act seemingly in good faith, based upon some level of threat or conflict, but we’re either untrained or unprepared for the situation and didn’t act optimally, causing or contributing to the death of the victim who was acting in a dangerous or illegal fashion.

I agree with Adams the system failed Neeley given his background he had no business walking the streets or riding the subways. But unfortunately we have no alternatives for people like that, and the forces of frugality and freedom end up working against such people. Then we leave it to law enforcement or citizens to deal with them, then dish out outrage and punishment when those people don’t deal with it correctly.

 

DeSantis fundraises for Daniel Penny, who faces manslaughter charges in Jordan Neely death

 

Holy cow he sucks. How about just stay out of it, Ronnie?

 

If DeRacist wanted to help a vet who acted in actual self defense, there is one here in Florida he could pardon. But he doesn't have the right color skin to garner DeSantis's attention and aid.
Michael Giles: No Ordinary Defendant - FAMM

 

One piece of garbage supporting another, sounds about right

 

Good. Some folks obviously have no problem with a guy who looks like Penny choking a guy who looks like Jordan Neely to death, we’ll see what the justice system has to say.