Murder of Jordan Neely on the Subway

To me this is an another example of when you take away options, you may end up with something worse. School employees these are probably very hesitant to touch kids in any way, much less grab or restrain one, so you end up engaging police and using methods such as this.

In my own way I have live this with 2 special needs kids, and now adults. When they get violent, which they do, as kids I had to be careful how I physically responded. Now they are young adults, and it is even worse, especially after I tried to restrain my adult daughter, and then I got arrested. At this point I’m not touching them unless absolutely necessary, because you can’t trust cops to always do the right thing. So my options are pretty bad when they escalate. One *solution* is ever higher doses of anti psychotics, which comes with its own issues.

 

If I had to guess, a manslaughter charge may be inevitable. I’m just not going to jump to judgement without the complete facts. Logic would have it if this marine needlessly restrained the guy, for no other reason than the guy acting surly, presumably someone would have spoke up, or will speak up. My guess is the mentally ill guy acted out violently in some way, enough for the marine to perceive he or someone else was in danger. Given the mentally ill guy had 40 arrests and an open warrant for punching an old lady in the face and breaking facial bones, it is not at all implausible that they guy was acting out violently.

I can only conclude that the desire by some here to convict the marine before knowing all the facts is a form of virtue signaling by those particular posters. The victim checks all the boxes, black, homeless and mentally ill, which apparently calls for immediate condemnation, regardless of the fact set, whatever it may be.

 

I dont follow the 'taking away options' part ... The city told schools not to call cops unless it was an extreme case, seems like they were wanting to have more options or at least, avoid calling cops unless it was necessary. What happened was they just kept calling cops. Basically the schools got sued by parents because they were sending kids to hospitals or to the cops for non-medical issues and emotional problems. Really this should open up more options before drastic measures are introduced, but of course, what are those options if no one wants to fund mental health services, robust school counseling, etc and people are just predisposed to call cops for anything that disturbs them and are unequipped to deal with? This really isnt something worse either, its basically the same thing happening as before the new orders were given.

 

Incorrect. Laughably bad take.A 3 minute chokehold by a trained marine resulting in death no matter the race of the unarmed slightly built mentally ill victim is manslaughter on its face. The only real debate is if it’s murder. He’ll weasel his way past that by declaring he was in fear of his life. Good thing he’s out of the corp. we don’t need people like that.

 

If you have a student acting out violently at a school, what are you supposed to do? I’m sure they don’t want to touch the kids because they put themselves in great danger when doing so. So they call the cops. Just saying “stop calling the cops” but giving the school no good options to deal with it won’t change anything.

I have great sympathy for those who have to deal with violent behaviors. It’s a no win situation. Sometimes you won’t get it right, and then society wants to judge you and string you up by the balls.

 

You aren’t even worth talking to. You are just as bad as some of the right wing nut jobs here with your sanctimonious faux outrage and confidence.

 

Seems like violence would fit the criteria of an extreme case right? They are calling the cops on kids that arent being violent, but acting more like the guy on the subway. But in this case, some of those kids are like 5-6 years old, not a grown adult. I get that teachers arent equipped to deal with that, and probably not schools in general. But the cops certainly arent either. The cops are basically a "get out of jail free" card for any social problem people dont know how to deal with, and they can always fall back on the canard of fearing for someone's safety to justify it.

 

lol at the pretend to be cops comment.

I know a lot of gun owners who carry and none of them pretend to be cops. But you go ahead and say it if it makes you think it.

 

Ignore is your friend you won’t have to listen to me deriding your laughable takes like this one wrt virtue signaling faux outrage and whatever else your on about…

 

OK so what do we have here- the Mayor took a measured if tepid response:

Eric Adams warns probe into Jordan Neely's death needs to 'follow its course'

He's never said he was "OK" and I looked. Find me a source

 

People call the cops because they don’t have any other options. For better and for worse when I was going to school, teachers and administrators could deal with kids that were acting out. They really can’t now.

I have lived this. When my kids would get violent, I’ve called the cops before to try to deescalate things. I felt I had no other options. But they get here and get frustrated because I won’t give them enough information to act. As soon as there is ample evidence of any violence, physical or even verbal, they are obligated to arrest someone. I don’t want my kids to go to jail and have a permanent record. So eventually the cops arrest me.

What is one supposed to do? As evidenced in this thread, we have plenty of sanctimonious assholes in society who think they have all the answers but have no clue. It isn’t shocking when you give people nothing but bad options, that the outcome will be bad.

 

Done

 

I dont mean they get special uniforms and eat donuts, just that they think they can supply a little order to the mean streets

 

That was a totally reasonable response by the mayor. He’s black and was a transit cop. I think perhaps he has some perspective on the issue?

I’m really kind of flummoxed by your response on this issue. I expect it from some of the usual suspects, but not you.

 

"Acting out" is pretty vague. That doesn't imply violence. I dont think teachers should be calling cops for kids acting out in class or having a tantrum, do you? Why cant they deal with it now where they could before? The decree they put in should have given them more leeway to deal with incidents that weren't violent if its fear of running up against some law/rule or whatever. But I do understand your point about people not having or knowing other options, there is a reason people call cops for everything. My neighbor was in a feud with another neighbor and called the cops multiple times on them for stuff that was pretty silly and not violent, but they are generally incapable of a live and let live mentality over very petty acts that might be annoying and maddening, but cause no real harm. Part of the reason they called the cops is because code enforcement doesnt do anything, so basically it ends up with cops coming around, who also didnt do anything or even deescalate the feud.

 

A former officer didn’t say it was ok. I rode the subway today. With protection (not a gun).

What should he have said 24 hours after it happened?

Im adking a question not picking s fight. Adams not the gov

 

Do you think verbal abuse and threats would be sufficient justification or are you referring to actual physical violence? Hypothetically, if someone were yelling at people, insulting them, and even making threats (e.g. "I don't care if I go to jail, I'll beat your blank blank"), should people be permitted to take pre-emptive action based upon what they think he might do? Even assuming someone is making threats, that might be an arrestable offense, but I doubt that authorizes civilians to use force and detain the person in the absence of actual violence. And to be clear, I think taking swings would be an act of violence; I don't think anyone would argue that you have to wait for a punch to land to use force in response.

Of course, self-defense and defense of others have to be reasonable and proportional. That's a different question than whether the Marine used excessive force.

 

I am speaking generically. I used acting out as either in a physically or excessively verbally inappropriate way.

One thing that works fairly well, here in TX, is if you are designated as special needs, there are classes where certain teachers trained in such matters can intervene, even physically if necessary (restraint). Also, if you are special needs the consequences will not be as severe for certain outbursts that are otherwise not tolerated.

We live in a society that has “zero tolerance” for aggressive behavior from students, but also has near zero tolerance for physical or other more aggressive preventative measures from school staff, barring exceptions made via special needs status. It should not be surprising when people revert to calling the police when they have no other options.