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  1. Hi there... Can you please quickly check to make sure your email address is up to date here? Just in case we need to reach out to you or you lose your password. Muchero thanks!

Lithium-air battery technology breakthrough

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by WestCoastGator, Feb 5, 2023.

  1. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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  2. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    I read the abstract and have very little idea what is going on. Summarize it for those of us who dated in high school. :)
     
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  3. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Trait; Lithium-air:Lithium-ion
    Electron-transfer efficiency; 15:1
    Storage capacity; 3:1
    (Eventual) Cost of goods; 1:10
    Safety; Solid metal and ceramic, no liquid: known safety risk
    Scalability; 1000:1? This is hard to quantify, but a solid-gas composition vs solid-liquid-gas is...just wow.
     
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  4. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    Interesting. Seems like a big deal. How would this compare to SS battery tech that Nissan said they’ll roll out by 2028?
     
  5. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a dozen bench level chemistry break thrus.

    This could be the one, but there's a long way to go and a lot to consider as it goes from bench to pilot to automated production.
     
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  6. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    This one's different. Softbank and others are already invested and financing scale-up/implementation. Don't be surprised when a better electric car comes out of both China and the US. IP battle will play out.
     
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  7. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Imagine a jetliner made of a ceramic material that also operated as battery and shield.
     
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  8. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Could be. I definitely believe there will be great gains in battery chemistry and I root for them all. I don't mean to pooh-pooh this, I'm just pointing out that there are many funded breakthroughs happening all the time.
     
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  9. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    True that. But, removing liquid from lithium batteries is on a fundamentally different level of tech accelerant from both an investment and scientific perspective.
     
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  10. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree. What is possible is often extremely difficult to make economically feasible. Hope the research continues to progress
     
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  11. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Yeah. "Solid state" in one form or another has always been the holy grail.
     
  12. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Not in this case. Scale-up is far, far easier for solid-state. Look at laptop memory drives, for example. The move from mechanical drive to solid state changed that market.
     
  13. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    All of the materials described in the Science paper are extremely cheap and abundant.
     
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  14. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    There are a lot of benefits to solid state batteries, one of the biggest is removing the creation of dendrites which have significant negative impacts, as well as improved density, but I don't see this as a fair comparison.

    Scale up was easier for SSHD because of the removal of a lot of moving parts and their associative hardware. Here we're just talking about replacing a liquid electrolyte with a solid. This doesn't remove excessive complexity the way the move away from spinning drives did.
     
  15. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Sure it does! Removing the requirement to (safely and efficiently) store liquid has enormous implications!
     
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  16. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    How does storing liquid hinder scaling? (Honest Q)
     
  17. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Changes design possibilities by definition especially in vacuum.
     
  18. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    Less reliance on rare minerals, superior storage density, and resultant weight decrease meaning lower impact on range and more forgiving accidents. Wins all around. I don’t think the liquid vs solid state plays much of a beneficial role if just looking at the inherent state of the naturals.
     
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  19. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m referring to total manufacturing cost, not just cost of materials. Like I said, I hope the research continues to progress but right now this is a technology that has quite a ways to go before it can be successfully and feasibly produced.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  20. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    nanocracks in ceramic coatings identified as reason for failure in lithium metal batteries. another step in making them work

    Scientists Find the Holy Grail: the Reason Why Lithium-Metal Batteries Fail (msn.com)

    When looking for an anode material for your next-gen battery, you can’t do much better than lithium metal. Due to its high capacity, low density, and non-flammability, lithium-metal batteries could be an absolute game changer for electric vehicles and the green tech revolution at large.
    There’s just one problem: Lithium-metal batteries have a tendency to short circuit thanks to tiny fissures in the ceramic electrolyte called dendrites.
    ..............
    “Just modest indentation, bending or twisting of the batteries can cause nanoscopic fissures in the materials to open and lithium to intrude into the solid electrolyte causing it to short circuit,” lead coauthor William Chueh says in a statement. “Even dust or other impurities introduced in manufacturing can generate enough stress to cause failure.”
    ................
    Now that researchers have convincingly answered the question of why, the overall question of lithium metal’s future is looking less like “if” and more like “when.”
     
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