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Killers of the Flower Moon - Book & Movie.

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mrhansduck, May 9, 2023.

  1. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    This book was recommended to me, and it's fascinating.

    I had no idea about this historical event (the Osage Reign of Terror), and not sure I realized how poorly American Indians were treated even in the years after WWI. This tribe was pushed into north central Oklahoma, got "lucky" by discovering oil under their otherwise undesirable land and still had to fight for those rights with the government overseeing what they spent, etc. But much of the story is about the murder spree that began to hit their members.

    There are so many interesting characters, to include J. Edgar Hoover, who was appointed head of the n/k/a The FBI following the Teapot Dome Scandal.

    It wasn't until I began reading the book that I discovered there's a movie that's coming out. Looks like the movie is in post-production. I'm pretty excited. Directed by Martin Scorsese, and the cast includes Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert DeNiro, Lily Gladstone, Jesse Plemons, John Lithgow, Brendan Fraser, and others.

    The Book

    Killers of the Flower Moon - Wikipedia

    The book investigates a series of murders of wealthy Osage people that took place in Osage County, Oklahoma in the early 1920s—after big oil deposits were discovered beneath their land.[8][9] After the Osage are awarded rights in court to the profits made from oil deposits found on their land, the Osage people prepare to receive the wealth to which they are legally entitled from sales of their oil deposits.

    The Osage are viewed as the "middle man" and a complex plot is hatched to eliminate the Osage inheritors on a one-by-one basis by any means possible. Officially, the count of the full-blooded, wealthy Osage victims reaches at least twenty, but Grann suspects that hundreds more may have been killed because of their ties to oil.[10]

    The Movie

    Killers of the Flower Moon (2023) - IMDb
     
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  2. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Can't wait - another bit of largely ignored history. Thanks for posting
     
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  3. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    He also wrote the Lost City of Z, which was also made into an underrated movie
     
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  4. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Agree again - liked the movie
     
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  5. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I've kinda wanted to read this, but I'm also a weirdo who likes to read the book after the movie
     
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  6. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    An even deeper cut is another thing he wrote got turned into the Robert Redford movie The Old Man and the Gun, which I havent seen, but would probably like.
     
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  7. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    We liked that also
     
  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Guess I'll have to watch it (I just read the article it was based on), maybe I'll go down the Grann rabbit hole
     
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  9. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Philadelphia
    I wonder if the average American even thinks about what Western Europeans did to 10's of millions of Indiginous folk from the furthest northern reaches of Canada down to the bottom tip of S America.

    Myself......I do.

    While the origin of the Indiginous are still debated the absolute youngest (and currently incorrect model (Clovis) / its now thought they were here MUCH longer) has them being here at least 13,000 years ago.

    Using 13,000 years - That murdering scum Columbus showed up in 1492.

    So those people existed, settled and flourished here for 12,500 years prior to European trepidation.

    I don't think any amount of reparations will ever even come close to settling the crimes European and later American Gov'ts visited on these people.

    It's almost to painful to contemplate. Of course one party and one gov in particular don't want American students to get the facts on that story. You know, the story about our roots and whom we really are.
     
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  10. archigator_96

    archigator_96 GC Hall of Fame

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    We saw that, it was pretty good.
     
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  11. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    I’ll spare retelling my story of working for the Ute tribe 25 years ago on a very contentious case involving the rights to NG found in a coal seam in the San Juan Basin. But in an interesting closing of the loop, my 19 yo daughter just started working for an OLD Ute artist on the same res near Ignacio. How old? Well, he retired as an art teacher in 1985!! Don’t like that it is an hour drive from the edge of nowhere to the middle of nowhere, but it seems a good experience.
     
  12. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Read a bit of late - finished this one



    Got about 20% through this and intend to finish but reading something else now - fascinating underappreciated episode of the Civil War in current New Mexico (some Arizona), in which the Union, Confederate and various tribes fought out in shifting alliances.



    A few chapters done on this long tome - the California native Americans got perhaps the worst treatment, although it may be author perspective




    Horrible overall
     
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  13. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    For those interested in American Indian history (I used to say Native American, but I'm not sure if that's preferred these days?), I also recommend Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne.

    The author digs into the brutality committed by the Comanche tribe as well as the White settlors and the government. Goes into the founding of the Texas Rangers, etc. I think it strikes a balance and doesn't come across as having a political agenda or being preachy in any way. I always thought of the Apaches as being particularly feared, but the Comanches were on another level.

    One theme that was fascinating to me was about the importance of community and why many White Americans were drawn to become a part American Indian communities and why that rarely happened in reverse. I think many of those themes are instructive today with peoples' feelings of social isolation and lack of purpose.

    Apparently, there is a movie adaptation of this book in pre-production, which I hadn't known until now. If it's anything like the book, it's going to have to be extremely graphic.

    Empire of the Summer Moon: Quanah Parker and the Rise and Fall of the Comanches, the Most Powerful Indian Tribe in American History|Paperback

    This New York Times bestseller and stunning historical account of the forty-year battle between Comanche Indians and white settlers for control of the American West “is nothing short of a revelation...will leave dust and blood on your jeans” (The New York Times Book Review).

    Empire of the Summer Moon spans two astonishing stories. The first traces the rise and fall of the Comanches, the most powerful Indian tribe in American history. The second entails one of the most remarkable narratives ever to come out of the Old West: the epic saga of the pioneer woman Cynthia Ann Parker and her mixed-blood son Quanah, who became the last and greatest chief of the Comanches.

    Although readers may be more familiar with the tribal names Apache and Sioux, it was in fact the legendary fighting ability of the Comanches that determined when the American West opened up. Comanche boys became adept bareback riders by age six; full Comanche braves were considered the best horsemen who ever rode. They were so masterful at war and so skillful with their arrows and lances that they stopped the northern drive of colonial Spain from Mexico and halted the French expansion westward from Louisiana. White settlers arriving in Texas from the eastern United States were surprised to find the frontier being rolled backward by Comanches incensed by the invasion of their tribal lands.

    The war with the Comanches lasted four decades, in effect holding up the development of the new American nation. Gwynne’s exhilarating account delivers a sweeping narrative that encompasses Spanish colonialism, the Civil War, the destruction of the buffalo herds, and the arrival of the railroads, and the amazing story of Cynthia Ann Parker and her son Quanah—a historical feast for anyone interested in how the United States came into being.
     
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  14. G8tas

    G8tas GC Hall of Fame

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    This book sounds too woke (did I use that correctly?) to be offered in schools. I'd be willing to bet that Oklahoma teachers wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole
     
  15. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    He wrote a book called The White Darkness, which I assume is about how white people are evil. I will not investigate this further, please ban the book Moms for Liberty.
     
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  16. GrandPrixGator

    GrandPrixGator Premium Member

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    Anytime any American gets a little too big for their britches in labeling us as "exceptional" and thumbing our noses at other nations and their list of atrocities, you don't have to look any farther than slavery and our treatment of the American Indian. Exceptional is a goal not yet attained. And the plight of the American Indian is one that doesn't get enough attention IMO. In the line of the aggrieved, they certainly should be toward the front.
     
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  17. GrandPrixGator

    GrandPrixGator Premium Member

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    I've been looking forward to this movie for a while. Great book.
     
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  18. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 GC Hall of Fame

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    This is one I reverse engineered. I looked on IMDB a few years back and saw Leo and Martin were working on this one so I ordered the book. Incredible read - can’t wait for the movie.
     
  19. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Killers of The Flower Moon was a gripping read. I had heard zero about this segment of US history. A friend who is from Ponca City OK - basically next door had also never heard it mentioned growing up. Serial killing of Osage Indians by several to many people over decades and zip in our history books? The movie is directed by Martin Scorsese so no doubt a good one
    The author has several books out that seem intriguing.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2023
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  20. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    Okay, I’m getting Blood Meridian! Had never heard of Cormac McCarthy, but a lot of people seem to love him.