Kids watching sports today don't know greatness.

Oh yeah I’m not saying there’s no good music today, but it’s sporadic and you gotta go looking for it. Back in the 70s all you had to do was turn on the radio. So much great stuff, so varied, and so many hall of fame musicians all out there at the same time. An era that will never be equaled

 

Beyond the ring? Now I’m not following you.

 

The radio is trash for sure.

 

He was better at the net than any of the big 3, except maybe Roger. If he was all serve, he's Andy Roddick not Pete Sampras, former major-title record holder. He was fantastic at the net and sneaky good on the baseline too. There's a reason Roger modeled his game after him. Sad part about the "modern game" (see: video game) is that Roger is probably the last all-court player we'll see. People only go to the net to finish off points, it's not a core part of tennis strategy any more.

Then again, who cares? American tennis is officially dead as glorified ping-pong seems to have taken over in our (lazy) country. Pete and Andre were the last great American players. It's as European as Soccer now. Sad. I remember when we used to dominate tennis and always had one of the top-5 players (or more in the top 5) world.

 

Absolutely.

My kids' favorite musicians/ bands are all old school: Bruce Springsteen, Bob Marley, Aerosmith, Van Halen, G&R, Beatles, Rolling Stones...

Next to no one contemporary.

 

Also, can you show me evidence of this larger/faster thing, because that feels like a trope. I'm pretty sure prime Prime Time could outrun most if not all players today. Herschel and Bo are still sub-10.1 100 meter guys. I watch the NBA and I don't see bigger and faster, I see a bunch of skinny guys who are too soft to bang inside.

 

You’re certainly correct on Foreman. It was frustrating to watch — I always liked George. My favorite heavyweight though was Smokin Joe Frazier. Now that was boxing.

My biggest problem with the rope a dope was that he carried the fight to nobody. It was purely defensive boxing. Like if Foreman stopped punching there would be no fight. I did not like watching that BS.

This also leads me to the biggest ripoff in boxing history: when they took Marvin Hagler’s belt and gave it to Leonard. All Leonard did was dance and whirl his arms around to taunt Hagler. Hagler carried the whole fight to Leonard. It was Hagler’s belt, and Leonard did nothing to take it away.

Pound for pound, Marvin Hagler might have been the best boxer ever

 

Fair points. I liked Sampras a lot. Thought he was a class champ. Didn't mean to short change him, or his game.

Just saying that compared to the big 3, what my eyes once told me was extraordinary, seems rather mundane compared to what they've seen since.

....and I agree with you about the state on us men's tennis.

Hopefully they'll be a resurgence soon.

 

Agree mostly.

Your grievance wrt to RAD, and SRL, was my gripe with Larry Holmes.

Boringest champ ever. Frustrating to watch. I think his boring brand of fighting, coupled with its effectiveness/ his success, precipitated the downfall of boxing.

Left the door wide open for MMA UFC etc.

Jmho/fwiw

 

He was was The Greatest way beyond boxing. He's credited with saving boxing, as at the time it's fan interest had severely declined, and he brought new fans to the sport because of his skills and his showmanship. As many people went to his fights to, hopefully, see him lose as win. He was also the most recognizable person on the planet, regardless of where someone was from.

 

True, it wasn't fun to watch, but it was a brilliant tactic that worked to perfection.

 

I can’t really disagree with what you say here. He did turn around boxing by beating Sonny Liston. He attracted lots of viewers to either see him win or get beat. All this however is in the ring, so still not completely following the “beyond the ring” statement — especially when originally mentioning Tim Tebow in the same breath.

I found Ali’s personality outside the ring downright unlikeable with the incessant preaching about being the greatest. That kinda ushered in a new mentality among athletes too — “look at me!” was born, and I’ve never liked that to this day.

But none of that takes away from his performance in the ring. Badly as I wanted Smokin Joe to beat the greatest, he only managed that once against 2 losses. Boxing was indeed great back then

 

Great thread @GatorPrincess8 !
Thanks!

 

Well, I did cite my eyes as my basis, but for evidence beyond my opinion (about how I see things...):


How athletes are faster, better, stronger: David Epstein at TED2014 | TED Blog

https://www.scienceabc.com/sports/a...f professional and,this century has ever seen.

Young Athletes Are Bigger, Stronger and Faster Than Ever Before. But Are They Actually Better? - Stack Sports

Americans Are Faster Than Ever. So Is the Rest of the World.

 

He did more outside of the ring than Tim did. He saved a dying sport, was a worldwide figure and hero to millions of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Democrats, Republicans, atheists, etc. I understand that he wasn't your favorite, but the fact that he was so well known on a worldwide scale puts him transcendant beyond the ring. He could still draw a crowd decades after he had left the limelight. I'm taking nothing away from Tim. I love what he did for UF: his leadership, his shining example of morals, his devotion to Jesus, and his uncaring of the criticism for what he stood for. I know someone who hated him for nothing more than being a Christian. Many hated Ali for just being Muslim.

 

Don't bet on it. Seems the tennis version of 1/2 court with 8' nets is taking over. . . with young people! 18yo professionals? What an absolute joke. Nah, it's officially done here. Hat tip to everyone from Tilden to Sampras/Agassi. It was nice knowin' ya.

 

We're starting to drift onto the slippery slope to TH when we start talking about people hating Ali for being Muslim. That wasn't why I didn't like Ali's personality, and I certainly didn't hold anything against Kareem for being Muslim. Shoot, to me way back then, Muslim was just another religion accompanied by a name change. But other than kicking everybody's ass in the ring, I still don't understand what makes Ali any more of a "hero" outside the ring than any other great athlete. Being such a loudmouth drew a lot more attention to him than other athletes, and I submit that's a big part of why he was so well known. To some extent he was controversial, but to me that doesn't make him a hero. I don't see this as a religion issue, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

It's an interesting argument. Obviously, modern training and nutrition are creating "better athletes" but there is also this softer side that, IMO, is a result of the constant structuring of everything. So, let's take MJ. Did he learn/develop the stuff that made him MJ in practice? Or, is that the kind of thing you develop playing by yourself or in pickup games? I saw an interesting video on why the Europeans are doing so well in the NBA and it really comes down to old-school things like fundamentals, discipline (long time coaches with lots of power) and just playing in real games. Meanwhile, our AAU system looks like a mess by comparison.

 

Heavyweight Champ was basically King of the World back then.

 

For a lot of people, standing up to the Vietnam war. I'll leave it at that (and don't really have a personal opinion about it), but that would be the basis for his "hero" status among most of his fans. I doubt the Muslim thing did him any favors - especially considering the sect he chose - but I doubt that was the deal breaker. That, IMO, was his refusal to go to Vietnam.