Judge orders Trump to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

Dershowitz:

 

I reckon most Dems are so out of touch and don't realize every time they come after him in this manner, it makes Trump "one of us" to the voters. At this point, Leticia James is likely endearing more suburban women to vote for Trump. The more they attack him, the more his populist play gains traction.

 

One minor correction. I added the obvious omission.
"I reckon most Dems are so out of touch and don't realize every time they come after him in this manner, it makes Trump "one of us" to the Republican voters.
As far as suburban women are concerned my guess is that except for those that are members of MAGA nation most do not place a high priority on what Leticia James does or does not do, what does affect their votes are draconian limitation on reproductive rights from Red states the most recent example being the Alabama decision declaring that frozen embryos are children and there will probably be others before the election. Keep in mind that one of the reasons that Andy Beshear was reelected Governor of the hard red state of Kentucky was a response to the hardcore anti-abortion position of his own opponent and especially the effective use of this abortion ad.
Rape victim featured in ad reemerges as focal point of abortion debate in Kentucky governor's race

 

It's not criminal. The case was tried in civil court with the state as prosecution. States have the right to engage in civil cases too. Criminal charges were brought against the Trump CFO Weisselberg.

The reason for the fines were also laid out in the ruling, with a dollar for dollar reasoning by Engoron. The Judge also declared a complete and total lack of contrition on Trump's part for why his ruling was very close to what the state asked for.

Dershowitz is losing it. I think all he cares about now is his paycheck.

 

So even if he broke the law, it should slide because it may make him more popular.

 

I wouldn't go quite that far I think Dershowitz tries to play the Devil's advocate just for the sake of argument. I think that he knows better.

 

this article says interest is $112k per day...

$454 million judgment against Trump is finalized, starting clock on appeal in civil fraud case (msn.com)

The staggering civil fraud judgment against Donald Trump was finalized in New York on Friday, making official a verdict that leaves the former president on the hook for more than $454 million in fines and interest.

The procedural step by the New York county clerk starts the clock on Trump's appeals process, while allowing the debt to begin racking up post-judgment interest of nearly $112,000 each day, according to a spokesperson for New York Attorney General Letitia James, who brought the case.

 

Not at all. I say bring it on. He will rise a little further in the polls.

 

There i

There's never been a ruling like this with such an excessive fine in US history. It:s already been estimated that this atrocity will cost New York $10 Billion over the next 10 years. Engoron is an evil quack. His "dollar for dollar reasoning" for how others were hurt by Deutsche Bank giving Trump the loan is an assault on common sense. When Trump builds a buildingj he creates thousands of jobs. Those workers spend that money and help others like the local pizza shop owner and employees. Did the evil quack represent that Deutsche Bank only has a set amount of money to lend and others now jave less chance of getting a loan? Try running that by a competent economist who isn't a never-Trumper or partisan Democrat who' wants Trump to suffer financially.. not an economist but doesn't Deutsche Bank get their money from a Central Bank that creates it out of thin air? .You're smart, you probablyknow know more than me about banking.

Who revitalized downtown NYC when the market was down? Trump.

There are no set values for real estate. . Numbers can change overnight. Trump runs a very clean business according to tax super-attorney Robert Barnes, BTW. Trump did what virtually all people do when seeking a real estate loan, he presented his ability to pay and property in the best light. Deutsche Bank has a long relationship with Trump. They always do their own appraisal. They made a deal, Trump m time and all partoade every single payment on time. All parties were happy.

Democrat authoritarians are taking the US down a dangerous path, making our country more like the USDR every day.

BTW, Robert Barnes is also a constitutional law expert and criminal defense lawyer. He has debated Dershowitz online. Barnes agrees that the fine is excessive and violated the 8th amendment.

 

There have been similar rulings in the past based off fraud and disenforgement of ill gotten gains that is the base for fines. NYC won a similar case late last year where the fine was $1 million. But that was fraud of one building, over evaluation for rental purposes.

And just because there is no precedent for a fine this size doesn't mean it's wrong. For everything, there is a first time. And the Judge followed precedent and guidelines in the case. Trump committed fraud with building A, profited X, and therefore X is included in the penalty. There were three buildings and profit of about $350 million. It's all in the ruling.

As for the claim of no victim, or Trump was creating jobs, that doesn't absolve him from breaking the law. Laws that his CFO did go to jail for. And since corporations can't go to jail, broken laws that the Trump Corporation is now being fined $450 million for.

Laws that should be on the books too. Unless you think there should be no financial regulations and may the best cheat win! But that's how we get things like Enron, and what partially led to the last recession with loans being handed out like candy. Just because Trump didn't default again doesn't absolve him. Just like the drunk driver who makes it home safely, the danger is real. And the illegal behavior must be discouraged.

 

Mark R. Davis is a well-known constitutional lawyer:

 

Actually ... the People of New York County were not the prosecution .... but rather the plaintiff. There's a difference.

tto_complaint.pdf (ny.gov)

 

As Deutsche Bank said they base their loans on their appraisal. The real estate community is outraged by ruling. It will be overtirned.

When I claimed there was never a ruling like this this I.also referring to the excessive fiine. Just going by what Dershowitz, Barnes and other lawyers have said.

I admire your stubonness but eventually you'll take the L.

Thanks for the replies. I can tell you're a good guy.. I'm, outta this thread

 

Enron, it's guilty leaders, and the over $20 billion ultimately paid to its creditors disagree there's never been fines this large. Bottom line, the Trump corporation is guilty of financial fraud. The Judge figured out how much the Corp profited from this fraud and saw Trump with zero contrition ordered the Corp to pay back every penny. What is the legal argument the Judge was wrong?

 

The lack of contrition is of note. Pissing off a judge when you are guilty and caught dead to rights is never a good strategy.

 

There was another poster that used this phrase often.

I'll leave it up to the smart ones to figure out who this really is...

 

The fallout from the Enron fraud and bankruptcy is not analogous to the Trump organization’s misrepresentation of asset market values in limited use SFCs.

Enron was a listed entity that resulted in the loss of $billions$ to employees, shareholders , and creditors. The Trump organization is a privately-owned business and no entity was adversely impacted by any misstatements in any compiled SFCs created on behalf of the Trump organizations.

Is there any evidence any privately owned entity has been penalized as much as the Trump organization? A link would be helpful.

Thanks

 

So if I embezzle a bunch and bet it all and win and repay the embezzled money, no crime?

 

And the next Enron keeping two sets of books and moving money around is fine too as long as they remain profitable? And it's only a problem until people get screwed? Or, should we stop and prosecute all forms of financial fraud and disengorge financial gain from fraud before people lose money? And disencourage the behavior?

Just because the Trump Corp didn't cause people to lose money doesn't mean they should be able to profit from fraud.

 

Did the Trump organization embezzle money from any lending institutions with whom they did business?

Your attempt at an analogy failed miserably. Carry on.