Israeli Job in Gaza 57% Complete

What is this like bragging about being the tallest midget?

Ive heard of splitting hairs but this is a new level. Don't worry, whatever you all have to do to make you feel like Biden and Harris did a good job or that they were a success, do those mental gymnastics. You still have the problem of defeating Trump and convincing others that you can run the country. Kamala hasn't proven anything other than being second fiddle to one of the worst presidents we have ever had.

 

Al Queda and ISIS still exist but they are a shell of themselves and the threat they pose is substantially less, wouldn’t you agree? From that perspective the efforts specifically to eradicate those groups were successful.

I’m not sure Israel has ever conducted a war with the aim to wipe out those who engage in terroristic tactics. They usually end quickly, and in some cases involved territory gain, but have they ever engaged in systematic effort to eradicate those that are attacking them?

The flip side is they abandoned Gaza and have tolerated terrorist style attacks with proportionate responses which has had some success but clearly allowed 10/7 to happen.

Sure Hamas or an equivalent will exist but they will be depleted of fighters, depleted of supplies and infrastructure destroyed. That will set them back many years.

The flip side of an overwhelming victory is the other side may choose to give in and accept they are defeated and move forward.

 

Get it straight, please. In this instance we are claiming moral superiority.

As in; it's utterly immoral to vote for an adjudicated and admitted sexual assaulter, who has also been accused by approximately 25 other women of sexual assault. Or to defend such conduct.

You may now get back to defending the adjudicated sexual assaulter, and his admission of committing sexual assault.

 

Hmm, Im beginning to think maybe I do have the intellectually superior thing wrong. Anyway, Im talking about your inability to reason with the fact that not everyone votes on their emotions. If a person could feed their family with Trump better than Biden, they will vote for Trump. Its really simple. I know its crazy to think people struggle and don't vote with a mob mentality but those are the facts. I know, most people aren't a fan of those persky things. Facts don't care about your feelings.

Im done with this conversation. I don't post to change your mind, I post to call you all out for the hypocrites and just nasty people you are. Reps may be wrong but they are actually people you could hang out with. Liberals are the absolute worst. Buh bye.

 

Sure many may say that. Many say a lot of things. But looking at the history of war there is nothing particularly unusual about these numbers. As to the famine, I am more likely to agree with you, but that is as much due to Hamas as anybody else.

I don’t recall anybody saying that given the 3000 or so 9/11 deaths our overseas counter terrorism efforts should be limited to 3000 deaths, or 30,000, or 300,000. The assumption was whatever it takes to minimize the threat.

 

Good talk man. Go hang out with the fun people now. Maybe you can have a cool conversation like THIS;


TRUMP: "I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."

BUSH: "Whatever you want."

TRUMP: "Grab them by the *****. You can do anything."

 

Sorry for simply providing the correct data. Notice I did not make ANY claims as to whether it was a "did a good job or that they were a success". If facts are that intimidating to you in your currently desperate times, perhaps a message board is too rough an environment for you.

 

Are AQ and ISIS truly a shell of their former selves? Or do we just don't know or care since we're not actively fighting and don't hear about them? Is say the latter, especially when you read about Islamic terror groups current status.

They are still dangerous. We didn't eliminate them, and their numbers are still growing. They may not ever attack the US directly like 9/11, but I wouldn't count it out either.

As for Israel. It's enemies tried conventional war and always lost. And quickly. This gave way to the PLO, who carried out terror attacks for generations. When Arafat finally realized the futility, he signed a peace accord. But instead of agreeing to it, Hamas replaced the PLO. Same crap, different name.

Israel could never defeat the PLO using military only tactics. They won't defeat Hamas this way either.

 

Wait, you forgot one…

Bill Clinton to the young intern in his office at the White House: “I am one hummer shy of having a great day!”

Give ole Bill credit. He got serviced while actually sitting at his desk in the Oval Office and then had the nerve to say he “didn’t have sexual relations with that woman.” Classic.

 

It just seems to me you all are coming up with lots of reasons to rationalizing Israel not fully defending itself. Israel seems to be the only country who has to abide by these “rules”.

So is it your assertion that all of our military efforts to diminish Al Queda and ISIS were ineffective because they weren’t 100% wiped out, and they were immoral because innocent civilians were killed in the process? I’m not talking about the failed nation building efforts, I’m talking about the counter terrorism efforts.

 

Israel is talking about wiping out Hamas 100%. Just like we couldn't wipe AQ or ISIS completely off the map, neither will Israel wipe Hamas out completely. And unlike AQ or ISIS, Hamas lives right next door to Israel. Meaning, further terror attacks from rockets to bigger incursions from Hamas will happen.

If it's impossible to wipe Hamas off the map 100%, what Israel accomplishing today? That's the question

Israel has every right to defend herself. I've never stated otherwise. But the continuation of bombs 10 months after the Hamas attack will only perpetuate the battles that have been ongoing for generations. The more Israel attacks, the more Hamas recruits and gets support from the Muslim world.

What's Israel's end game? Destroying Hamas and propping up a pro-Israeli government in Palestine? Total pipe dream that will never ever happen in our lifetimes. A better strategy is much shorter responses and declaration that peace is desired. And Israel will only escalate if Hamas does first. But 10 months of bombing? Too late now.

 

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/92961/pdf/

The attacks on Mosul and Raqqua show around 30,000 civilian casualties, the two having a combined population of about 2 million.

Civilian cost in the Battles of Mosul and Raqqa

The high intensity conflict against ISIS has been costly for non combatants, particularly on urban battlefields. Since 2014, Airwars has tracked more than 2,600 locally alleged civilian fatality events across both Iraq and Syria, which have been linked to possible international Coalition actions in the war against ISIS. In total, these claims allege more than 26,000 non combatant fatalities. Airwars presently assesses that at a minimum, between 6,300 and 9,700 civilians are likely to have died in Coalition actions overall - approximately 40 percent during the recent battles for Mosul and Raqga.





Between 2500 and 5000 ISIS fighter died in Mosul.

U.S. military officials had estimated there were 2,000 to 5,000 ISIS fighters in Mosul at the start of the Mosul operation. In March, as the assault on west Mosul began, Lt. Gen. Stephen Townsend, commander of the combined joint task force, said he believed there were just 2,000 ISIS fighters isolated there.

 

You are aware that there was great opposition to our invasion of Iraq, notwithstanding Trump introducing a new Republican vogue of lying and claiming opposition to it.

That said, the general consensus hindsight takeaways from our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, respectively, were that it shouldn't have happened, and that we should have left MUCH sooner after abandoning the idea of either nation-building or totally eradicating the terrorists.

It's like Netanyahu looked at the lessons which should have been learned from those affairs and said "Hold my beer."

So pointing out previous conflicts where the same failed policies were evident that are evident with Israel's action in Gaza does not really justify.....failing to learn from history and repeating the same mistakes.

 

Of course the rhetoric is going to be 100%. I’m sure we said similar about ISIS and Al queda. But if the actual answer is 95% reduction, with the remainder with limited resources, that is certainly progress. This narrative you are advancing that anything less than 100% elimination is no better than zero makes no logical sense.

What is Israel’s end game? It is a fair question. The problem is while IMO much of Israel’s actions are justified Netanyahu is in many respects a bad actor gives what may be legitimate actions less credibility. There is every reason to believe that he has every intention to extend the war beyond its potential logical end in order for his political survival.

Having said that indont think most realize that most people in Israel who oppose Netanyahu are generally supportive of the war efforts to date.

If Israel is still taking out Hamas members, what is the relevance of the 10 months? They could have bombed harder and taken out more civilians and maybe it would have only taken 5 months? On one hand critics are saying “be more precise!!” And the other hand saying “why is it taking so long?”

Why aren’t you or others asking why Hamas doesn’t release the remaining hostages?

You can’t be serious. Hamas has been launching rockets etc into Israel constantly and Israel responds. You think now Israel call for peace Hamas will decide to just kiss and make up? Hamas does not want peace. Just when you let your guard down then something like 10/7 happens.

As to end game - I don’t know. I don’t think the Gazans can be trusted to govern themselves. There has been and will always be enough there that are radicalized that they can’t be trusted. So that means Israel or somebody else has to do it. Best case scenario would be a coalition of other middle eastern nations but they don’t want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Why do you think Egypt doesn’t allow crossing into their side either?

 

You ignored my caveat “ignoring the nation building efforts” or something like that.

I don’t think many people think what we started out doing in Afghanistan was wrong in terms of beating Al Queda back (and even to some extent the Taliban, at least initially

The Iraq invasion was mostly viewed as a mistake, but once we got out ISIS emerged and we had to go back and beat that back. I don’t think anybody thinks beating back ISIS was a mistake. I don’t recall anywhere on any message boards people posting ratios of civilians to ISIS fighters and crying for a cease fire to the US genocide in ISIS occupied territories.

That’s the point.

 

You can't separate out the failure to nation build and our fighting AQ and ISIS. The failure to nation build, which was an impossible task, left us with a hollow "victory." AQ and ISIS still exist, as as the 2023 report I linked shows, they are gaining power again. Terror groups are like cancers. Leave a little, and it will grow back in full.

It's what make terrorism so difficult to defeat. Remember, Israel's enemies tried conventional battles and lost them all in short order. Since the rise of the PLO, Israel has been fighting terror groups now for generations. And having no end game just assures the next generation will be fighting the same battles.

Likely going to be fighting no matter what Israel does, but bombing Palestinians for the better part of a year is only going to help Hamas recruit their next generation. The more the bombs fall, the more young Palestinians get radicalized and join Hamas. And the more the wheel continues to spin.

There are no easy answers. But bombing in response to terror attacks is what Israel has been doing for years. And has that ever stopped homemade missiles from being launched from Gaza? No. Again, if you keep doing what you're doing, expect to keep getting what you are getting.

With AQ and ISIS, we're lucky. There's half a world between us. They aren't going to be able to launch rockets or a large scale Oct 7 attack against the US. Israel has no such luxury.

 

I know people in Israel. And what you said is the goal. And, to all the idiots who say otherwise, they absolutely want peace. When the other side wants peace, there will be lasting peace.

 

Yes, ISIS is a shell of what it was. Not just because of our efforts, but Russia was pretty ruthless on its dismantling of Isis in Syria (which we really don’t talk about much). Sure, they could grow again and try and recreate their short-lived caliphate, but at least today, they are a sampling of what they were.

 

I don’t think Israel intends to literally stamp out every person that served under Hamas. The goal is to eradicate the leadership, and ensure a new government is implemented that will not make war with Israel. Maybe, as you’ve said, it’s an unachievable goal, but it’s the goal.

And while you correctly state that Israelis bombing Gaza 10 months after Hamas started the War, Hamas continues to fire bombs into Israel from Gaza, and Israel will respond, as it must.

 

I have family in Israel. They are split at this point about the continued bombing. I keep telling them you can't force peace on a group that doesn't want it. History bears this out over and over again. And sadly, the Palestinians don't want peace. Hamas is a terrorist group, and has overwhelming support of the Palestinians. Sad, but true.

Killing more Palestinian civilians won't change this. It's akin to saying the beatings will continue until morale improves. Not that a ceasefire will result in anything different. Because the most likely path is continued terror attacks followed by Israel responses. But at least with a ceasefire, the beating stop. And maybe a miracle happens and the Palestinians choose peace?