Is Shapiro correct? Is retirement a ridiculous institution?

They are dead within 5 years, yet get SS for 20???

 

Right wingers hate social security.....until they need it

 

Ayn Rand was on Medicare

 

…and mail-in ballots?

 

As a personal philosophy, sure. I hope I work until the day I die. But as a national policy, no. Some professions you can work until old age, and some take a great toll on your body that you’re spent by middle age.

 

Office guys vs field workers

 

Conservatives don't necessarily agree with Social Security. But if we pay into it (like we do) then damn right we want it there for us. It's not some free program, we paid for it on every pay check in Social Security taxes. Are we not entitled to that since we paid for it?

If not then that's just downright theft.

Now for me personally, if given the choice, I would've much rather forfeited Social Security and invested that money. I absolutely think I could do better with that money investing it than just getting it back 40 years later (and a substantially reduced value) when I retire.

 

I don't think retirement is going to go away completely but retirement, as we know it today, will largely be a dream outside of the wealthy top 10 - 20%. I think full time retirement will largely not be possible by the time Millennials and Gen Z get to 65 and older.

I'm 40 and I save as much as I can, but I'll admit it never feels like it's going to be enough. And like most I'm not counting on Social Security to be there. If it is great but it's not something I'm counting on or something that anyone who is a Millennial or Gen Z should count on. I think if Social Security is still around it will be so devalued that it will be meaningless. Sure you'll get $2,000 or $3,000/month in Social Security. A McDonald's hamburger at that point will cost $50. A sit down meal will probably cost $150-$200 (at a casual restaurant, nothing fancy obviously). So it just won't mean much.

For me realistically I've kind of accepted that I'll probably never be able to have a traditional full time retirement until I'm just physically unable to work. My personal hope is that I can take a year or two off in my 50's (middle aged but still young enough to be able to travel a good amount) and travel around. My goal is to use the estate wealth from selling my parents house to buy a Ford Transit Vehicle and turn the back into a living space. I'll then just go around the country and travel to all 50 states and all the provinces in Canada. Do that for a year or two and then just use it as needed for road trips. Sure it's a huge expense up front but then no more worries about expensive hotels. Plus unlike an RV it can be your living space as well as your day to day transportation.

After that I'll then probably go back into the workforce and work full time until 70 to get additional social security. After that my guess is I'll probably still work part time or seasonal (preferably at a place that would let me take a few months off each year to travel) to have some income coming in.

But the idea of me being able to just retire at 67 and never work another day in my life at this point feels like a fantasy that isn't realistic. And I think many Millennials and Gen Z will be in the same boat.

I think the other change you'll see with people like me and Millennials and Gen Z in general, more of the "live life now" motto. So many Boomers and older Gen X'ers just held off on things they wanted to do assuming they would be able to do it in retirement. But at the end of the day they either passed away before they could do it, never got around to it even in retirement or were in too poor of a shape physically to do. I've seen it with my parents and my aunts/uncles.

How many Boomers saved up their whole life and then died during Covid? Never getting to do the things they wanted to do because they thought there would be so much time in retirement. Article after article has shown there is a stark difference between what people think retirement will be compared to what retirement actually is.

Don't assume you're going to be in the physical shape to do things like travel the world or hiking the Pacific Crest Trail in your 60s and especially 70s. Do it now.

 

wrong. Gen Z is poised to be the richest gen ever.

 

I guess no one has told him that full SS does not kick in at 65 these days and everybody does not live to age 85. Some jobs are not for 65 year olds. I spent 8 years working construction when I was in my early 20's. I would not want to do that same kind of work after age 65. I am old enough to retire but work in the AC 3 days a week. I have no plans to retire full time or work full time. I have not started drawing SS yet but plan to soon.

 

It isn’t really that simple.

1. SS is closer to an annuity or a series of bonds. You would not expect the returns of an annuity to match stocks. Go to immedateannuities.com and price out some annuities that have 2 or 3% annual escalator (you can no longer get cpi adjusted immmediate annuities). If you dropped $100k for an annuity around 65 years old, to cover you and spouse, with a 2-3% escalator, it will probably pay out a little over $4k per year. So if you are getting $2000 a month from social security, it would cost 24,000/.04% or $600k to buy that annuity stream.

2. While higher incomes get a lower future monthly payout vs their prior income than lower incomes, the life span of higher incomes are significantly longer than lower incomes



The payout for somebody in the highest income quintile will be approximately twice as long as in the lower quintile.

3. SS is a pay as you go system, one generation pays for the next. Comparing to setting aside your own money in the stock market is apples and oranges.

4. If it weren’t for SS the younger generation would have a huge burden supporting their parents. Sure maybe 1/3, at most 1/2 would have invested in the stock market and been fine, but the bottom half likely would have next to nothing.

Having said that we do need to look raising the retirement age and other measures to keep the system solvent long term.

 

100% accurate. Just today I was hanging out with "Right Wing" Jewish wife (DEI marriage) who, as a single mom, cleaned chicken coops for several months in order to put food on the table for her and her son. Worked her assets off and now is in the top 10% of income earners. Contrast her with her brother, who is Left, and bitches and moans that everyone is out to get him. We are. Our sole purpose is to bathe ourselves in cash and keep those peons hungry, unhoused and without hope. Bwahahaha (evil laugh).

 

I don't completely believe you ... single moms with children and minimum wage type jobs almost certainly qualified for all types of government assistance, from food and housing, to health care and tuition assistance, so I'm sure that she, like most right wingers, happily took the hand outs when they were directed her way.

 

I don’t think he said anywhere she didn’t take assistance.

There are plenty of people who may qualify for snap but don’t take all the benefits they can get.

Many are both on the left and the right.

 

He should mention that, then, it's weird how all these "pulled myself up by bootstraps" stories don't mention the thankless role that "other people's tax money" played in the story.

But I should also say "good for his wife". Most of people can't pull themselves out of that sort of life so she is a success story, but I don't think she did it without help...

 

Absolutely my wife had outside help - that wasn’t the point. I was agreeing with the insightful post that those of us on the Right only see two classes. Brilliant, stunning post in its insight into “the Right”. I’m honored to be able to read such wisdom. BTW, besides her own two hands, great assistance was provided by a rabbi friend of hers - mostly in the form of opportunity which she pursued vigorously.

 

There is no "claim". It's basic math. The fact is, SS and Medicare are unsustainable and we'll find out in the early 2030s when benefits will be cut unless major changes are made and one such change is delaying retirement until 70, from 67 and doing away with the 62 year old early retirement completely. Even if they raise the cap, the unfunded portion doesn't decrease much unless you raise the cap to infinity and take away SS benefits for everyone earning $1M. But you know, very few people earn that kind of money. Most uber wealthy earn less than I do because everything they have is locked up in stocks and other illiquid assets. Most don't even think about filling for SS benefits when the times comes.

That number is more than the GDP of the EU, China, and Japan combined. So tell me, what is unsustainable if this isn't it?

 

Come on man you know the magic money tree will just keep producing.

 

Others take a toll on the mind or are incompatible with the effects of aging on the brain. Nobody in aviation or health care professions should reasonably expect to work until they die.

 

I've been blessed to have been able to retire at 51. It's been been great to travel, hike,fish and spend time with family and friends. I think retirement isn’t good for some, not saying that they haven't earned or don't deserve it. My main regret is that I didn't realize after 34 years of being around co-workers and employees how much I would miss them.

Almost all of my closest friend and family still work. My wife gave me a list that she had wanted done, I knocked it out in about 3 months, she said I needed to go back to working, lol.

I started consulting and that's been fun for me. I believe this is what Ben was talking about,. It's important for some to be active and engaged with others.
My wife loves being retired and has no intention of going back to work.

My investments and saving over the years is what allowed for me to be able to retire. I'm a long ways from being able to get SS, if that's what I had to rely on I'd be working forever. I think another poster described it being gravy for him that's what it'll be for me.

My dad is 82 and a machine, still gets up every day at 6 and works but at what he enjoys and not for the money but because he enjoys it. The man still weighs what he did in high-school, 145 he's amazing. When ever we're together he looks right at my gut, lol he doesn't have to say a word I know what he's thinking. I truly believe if he wasn't working he would have died already.

I think Ben is brilliant but retirement will be a luxury for some, a necessity for other's but should always remain a personal choice.