Indianapolis Mall Shooter Killed by Good Samaritan

Their gun death rates are still much higher than Hawaii, just lower than would be expected given their gun ownership rate based on the model. But there are some similarities between the states that are lower than expected. Cold weather seems to be the primary thing in common. South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Iowa, Nebraska, etc. all have that in common.

 

For sure on that idea, but unbalanced is a description that’s pretty difficult to nail down

 

The most consistent thing I see in most of these lone wolf, mass shooter cases is a sense of isolation and disconnection from other people and society. They don't have a purpose or meaning and don't feel a sense of "tribe."

I suppose that isolation could be an effect rather than a cause, but it seems that the feeling of isolation leads to anxiety and/or depression, which then morphs into fear/paranoia and ultimately anger/rage. This process allows people to accept extreme and irrational ideas. That, in turn, can lead to radicalization, and some of these may even seek out a new group with which to find some solidarity. Others may remain lone wolves. From what I've read and been listening to, these factors are also present during periods of mass formation psychosis and authoritarian movements. I think it's probably a similar explanation for why there were foreigners signing up to join ISIS.

Of course, even if I'm right about social isolation being the key to mass shooting events (particularly where complete strangers are targeted), we have to ask why these people feel more isolated and disconnected in the first place. I don't think our obsession with money, success, and fame helps. I think social media distorts peoples' sense of reality and self worth. Covid certainly didn't help. Having said that, I don't think these possible initial ingredients are limited to the United States, so I'm still trying to think through what is going on here. I am pretty sure that the availability of guns is a factor, but perhaps our love of guns simply reflect that America is a relatively violent society generally; we also have disproportionate murder rates (and much, much higher total numbers of murders) outside of mass shooter events.

 

Has any other country with strict gun laws had to do a 180 to get there? Asking the country to go against the 2nd amendment won’t ever be easy.

I don’t want to legislate morality, I just don’t believe anything matters until we get more of it

 

We can have strict gun laws without going against the second amendment. The damn thing literally says "well regulated".

 

JMHO but this is where interpretation changes over time. The counter to your argument is that in the 18th century well regulated meant well practiced, well trained, well disciplined. Not regulated in the sense we use the word today.

 

Don't want to draw wrong conclusions, but if I hear you correctly, we can blame this "Change" on the internet? I'm not sure I disagree but is there a way to "fix" that?

 

Hero Houston cop recounts how he took down would-be shooter at a children's dance competition | Daily Mail Online

So now what happens? Only hit with minor charges.

 

This person who was subdued holding a rifle + 120 rounds near a children's dance performance was arrested again with a gun only one week later? What in the heck was he doing out of prison anyway? Then after the second incident, in which he presumably sought to shoot the Director of the FBI, he gets two misdemeanors and one year. This was an obvious failure of law and order.

 

Grey area I guess. What was he actually guilty of? I'm curious where some of the more rabid 2nd amendment people stand on this guy's right to carry.

 

I see all the crazies in that article are blaming the “Demoncrats” and the DA.

But this is a creation of lax gun laws. This guy was 100% allowed to carry all these rounds of ammo into Macy’s. He never fired a shot. Unless the guy admits what he was going to do. There isn’t necessarily a crime to charge based on carrying his rifle. It’s only an assumption of what he might have done.

Now imagine there are 5 random dudes carrying rifles into Macy’s. Which one does the security guard “bum rush”? Quite a pickle for the security guard, he’d need to actually wait for one to start shooting. But if that’s the future Texans want, there wouldn’t be a Macy’s to worry about anyway.

 

gun deaths probably includes suicides. My guess is without those this chart looks a whole lot different.

 

Should suicides not count? Gun ownership is a huge factor in suicide "success" rates. I'd rather people who try to commit suicide be less "successful" in their attempts.

Firearm Access is a Risk Factor for Suicide

 

@helix raises a valid point though. It depends on what you're trying to show with the statistic. If you're looking to push the dangers of firearms, then yes it should probably include it. If you're looking at the likelihood of someone committing a crime with a firearm, then no it shouldn't.

 

Well, given the fact that the post he was responding to specifically mentioned reducing gun deaths, it would seem to be the focus is on danger.

 

That may be the case. I was simply looking to clarify is all. We have a tendency to look at a graph and make assumptions from skewed data (or even from data that isn't there).

 

That refrain makes its way around the internet a lot, but always seems to ignore the eight other times the constitution uses the word regulate in the rulemaking sense.

But regardless, even under that interpretation, you get a well-practiced, trained, and disciplined militia in large part by making rules for that militia and enforcing them. It doesn't just spontaneously manifest from the ether.

 

from what I understand, he engaged aggressively within 2 minutes of the first shots and probably had a lot of luck on his side, not to take anything at all away from him. He shot from distance (about 40 yards, which is a difficult shot with a handgun), took down the gunman, and closed distance. Beyond that, I’d like to see the security footage. It appears, though, that it was likely a combination of incredible marksmanship and the gunman likely did not expect to encounter armed resistance and had his OODA loop reset

 

You are correct. Suicides are a significant contributor to the r-squared of that chart. The problem with trying to analyze the correlation of state murder rate vs state gun ownership is many of the guns used in crimes are unregistered or from out of state.

A national view (vs state view) of guns/homicides compared to other countries shows a different, but similar relationship (2019).




Different view...

 

How so? Is your theory that suicide by firearm doesn’t correlate to gun ownership rate? Do you think that gun owners in stricter gun controlled areas are substantially less likely to commit suicide than in less controlled states, and vice versa?

Removing suicides from the counts will most likely only reduce the gross number, not highlight some variable that will throw on its head the correlation between gun ownership rates and deaths by firearm.