How the Gaza Ministry of Health Fakes Casualty Numbers

Well, you are just parroting known terrorists numbers. I'll be the adult in the room and not listen to what the terrorists are trying to tell me. But you do you sport.

 

So your solution is for Israel to stand down, not get their hostages back and then wait for Hamas to reorganize and attack again. Got it. Great plan there! Shocked Israel isn't taking your advice...

 

Why should anyone assist Israel's ethnic cleansing/apartheid project project removing people from their own land? This is like asking why none of the other African countries would take the blacks out of South Africa in 1980.

 

ethnic cleansing.? their land ? Here we go. Apartheid? Like the one where the Israelis still permitted the Gazan to live in Israel who then literally stabbed the IDF in the back at the bakery ? See post 57 for video. What do you think would happen if an Israeli walked into a restaurant and ordered Msakhan? Spoiler alert, they would be killed before getting to the restaurant, probably by a child that’s been taught at school to hate Jews more than he’s been taught math. See post 55 for Hamas Mickey Mouse

more accurate and honest answer is that none of those other countries I mentioned want anything to do with the ‘Palestinians’

edit- for the record I’m not trying to change your or anyone else’s mind. I’ll just disagree in a civil and polite way

 

Sorry you dont like the answer, but if you come from the position that Israel is simply entitled by conquest to remove or exterminate people from "their" land, no wonder. Of course we as Americans did it to Native Americans, so I can see why many people here see it that way, its just history to us.

 

I hope Hamas disappears but that doesn’t mean Israel is a good actor here. Israel is quite literally actively moving people out of their homes in the West Bank as I write this. They have the ability to build upward in their existing lands but are instead dispossessing Palestinians from their rightful homes. That is unconscionable.

 

I keep hearing that but sometimes it is about minimizing the threat now, such as with ISIS and Al Queda. They still exist but are greatly diminished.

Do you there is a scenario in the Gaza or the Westbank, if a 2 state solution were set up, that Palestinians could peacefully live next to Israel, or eventually will they attack?

 

Who said anything about remove or exterminate? The only ones who want to remove and exterminate are the Palestinians. Israel’s current response is in reaction to Palestinian attack on Israel.

Also, Israeli Jews have been there as long as anybody so this notion that they conquered it is false.

 

Do you think there is a scenario in which a two state solution exists where we arent propping up Israel with aid and weapons? Who is arming a Palestinian state? Do they get nukes like the Israelis? I think its way more likely in such a scenario where Israel simply annexes a Palestinian state, unless there is some kind of backer of the Palestinian state that gives them guns and nukes on equal footing with Israel or like a nuclear Iran guarantees their independence. But this is all mostly fantasy. Israel is just doing that right now as the world watches, and a 2 state solution is a pipe dream, basically because Israel made it so. The right-wing Israelis basically made Hamas what they are and propped them up, because they wanted Fatah and a two state solution discredited.

 

To you last point, yes right wing Israelis have propped up Hamas in order to torpedo a 2 state solution.

Aside from that in the past I would say Israel would have abided by such a scenario. I’m not so sure about the hard right element there now would, which is growing due to demographics.

 

What world are you living in? "The Palestinians" didnt attack Israel or declare war on them (I mean they are basically being blockaded and living in a prison). They suffered a terrorist attack, which they used as a pretext to invade and remove all Palestinians from their land, for good. They are already building new settlements. You really should pay attention to what the Israelis in charge are saying lol, the rabid right wingers in charge are quite honest about their goals! You all are just laundering the American-approved talking points so this doesn't look as bad for us, backing this travesty financially and with our weapons killing civilians.

 

So would you at least admit the Israeli state is a bad actor too?

 

Hamas is the governing body of Gaza, originally elected by Gazans and the attack was broadly supported by Gazans. It was an attack by a quasi state.

I’m not arguing with your assessment of the far rights motives.

 

Yes they have taken certain actions that inflamed the situation. I do not see them as equally culpable.

 

I wish a two state solution would be proposed and accepted by all parties.
As to who is providing arms to Hamas, likely Iran/their proxies. If Iran had nukes and was able to get some to Hamas. What do you think the likelihood of Hamas using it on Israel unprovoked. I'm thinking it's pretty high. While Israel does have nukes and doesn't have any intention of using them (first). Nuclear weapons for both parties only works if EACH side only wants to use them as a last resort. See cold war.

 

It could be, but the American government has no interest in prodding the Israelis that way, we have made it pretty clear we will back them no matter what they do, and the Israeli government has run with that, whether its been on settlements and now what amounts to ethnic cleansing. Like there is virtually no opposition to the Israeli right, the realistic alternatives to Likud are just people who more or less agree with them, but are slightly less racist, psychotic and bloodthirsty. There hasnt been any really leadership from the US WRT Israel for maybe 20 years now. Bush was the last president to really push back, and Obama disliked Netanyahu but never really pushed back on them, they more or less decided to try to normalize relations with Iran when they elected a more moderate guy and do a nuclear deal, which the Israelis tried to torpedo. So that was more like neglect. Then Trump basically did their dirty work by canceling the nuke deal, moving the embassy, and now Biden is continuing the tail wagging the dog with our Israel policy.

 

But, at the end of the day, if Israel wanted to, they could nuke Gaza and be done with them. They haven't and won't. Because the world would turn against them and they know it. Hamas on the other hand would if the roles were reversed, because they don't GAS what the world would think of them.

 

Well, as long as they think they are winning (also I dont know why they would nuke a place that is literally within sight of Israeli civilians)

Samson Option - Wikipedia

 

I'm way too deep into a ski weekend to tackle this, but this shows a lack of historical context and understanding of what happened there in the last 100 years. To say the least.

 

Certainly not worth disrupting a vacation over. Have fun.

FTR I understand the history is complicated and as in any instance, including the US, the current inhabitants ancestry has often committed atrocious acts in the path to getting to where they are. But at the same time those who characterize Israelis as genocidal colonialists are also grossly oversimplifying also.

At some point, to the victor go the spoils. Israelis have a historical claim to the land as much as Palestinians.