Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Gator Country Black Friday special!

    Now's a great time to join or renew and get $20 off your annual VIP subscription! LIMITED QUANTITIES -- for details click here.

How China's Military Views the United States

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Germany fires a shot across China's bow: declares China to be a "competitor and a systemic rival". A diplomatic slamming, if you will.

    Germany takes aim at China in first national security blueprint

     
  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    China's economy is back! No, wait. It's actually more screwed than anyone thought.

    China’s economy is way more screwed than anyone thought

    To me, the biggest risk is that China starts a war to distract the people from the government ineptitude in running the country.
     
  3. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    China is expected to lose the most millionaires of any country in the world this year, with 13,500 wealth-meisters going on food stamps. The economic slowdown was made worse for the millionaires by Beijing claiming that they will not "kill the rich to help the poor", which made wealthy people think that China was getting ready to start killing the rich to help the poor. A large exodus of wealthy people was initiated, with many going to Singapore.

    China Will Lose the Most Millionaires of Any Country This Year: Report

     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    China has been shuttering factories and workers have been going on strike as employers stop paying them. China's exports are said to be "tumbling". Sadly, workers have no protection or representation in disputes with employers.

    Tumbling exports feed worker unrest in world's factory China

     
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    A Chinese expert on foreign affairs says that China needs to learn how to "make friends", like the U.S. does. No word on whether China should "follow international law", or stop "lying, cheating and stealing their way through life". But it could be a start.

    China should reconsider Russia ties, 'make friends with more countries', scholar says

     
  6. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

    2,077
    159
    293
    Apr 8, 2007
    Hot off the press:

    China’s top naval scientist proposes a Star Wars-style ‘supership’

    This is more interesting than most other scaremongering news out of China because this is apparently based on a paper by Ma Weiming. He's a serious dude, the PLA general in charge of their electrical based weapons systems. For example, he's the head designer of the electromagnetic catapult on their new aircraft carrier, the guy leading their warship electric propulsion system research which has been in service on coast guard vessels, and probably plays a big role in their EM gun research efforts as well which has been testing onboard a landing ship for a few years.

    If his claims that these types of electrical based systems are ready for implementation then that'd be quite a leap in capabilities for the PLAN. This will be a major shock to the USN, which has received paltry sums under Biden's FY24 budget for upgrades and expansions. A single major Chinese shipyard has more capacity than all our major shipyards combined right now, and they have many. If they manage to achieve a qualitative advantage as well, it won't bode well for our future in Westpac.

    Key lawmakers flex new positions to bolster shipbuilding industry
     
  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Investors are moving their money out of China and into India and Japan. A lot of "de-risking" going on.

    China is losing out to India and Japan as strained ties with US hurt deals, exit prospects for private equity funds, EY says

     
  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    I don't see how China's new "super-ship" would work. In fact, I don't think they understand how an aircraft carrier is supposed to work. An aircraft carrier is supposed to stay away from enemy ships and let the aircraft squadrons attack the enemy. They aren't supposed to lead the battle and get within firing range of the enemy, and blast away with the rail gun. That's what battleships, cruisers and destroyers are there for, when they aren't protecting the aircraft carrier. If it was a nuclear-powered battleship or cruiser, I could understand, but not an aircraft carrier.

    China's "serious dude" needs to focus on the details, and leave the big-picture items to smarter (or wiser) people than himself. I'm sure the USN laughed themselves silly over this report. Having the biggest shipyards in the world does them little good if they can't design or build a good ship.
     
  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,145
    1,196
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    I don’t understand why China needs aircraft carriers. It’s not like it’s bent on global military domination like the US.
     
  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    A Congressman introduced a bill to rename a street in D.C. The street in front of the Chinese embassy would be renamed Tiananmen Square Memorial Boulevard. Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.

    Bill seeks to rename street in front of Chinese Embassy in DC after Tiananmen Square victims

     
  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    China is getting desperate in its efforts to resuscitate its nearly-dead economy. In addition to interest rate cuts, China is also planning on injecting stimulus funding into the economy, and easing property ownership rules.

    China plans big stimulus jolt and looser property rules as Beijing reaches for stronger measures to revive economy

     
  12. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

    2,077
    159
    293
    Apr 8, 2007
    It sounds like he means to redefine the role of all warships by his quote "[it] will completely overturn the combat formation of naval fleets that has been in place for over a hundred years." In the end, its worth will have to be proven in war. After all, the obsolescence of battleships wasn't clear until WWII when aircraft carriers proved their worth.

    With that said, I agree with you that it's probably unwise to cram too much responsibility into one ship. However, the important thing in the article to me isn't the sensationalist "supership" that he proposes, but his claims that the subsystems such as railgun, coilgun, EM launcher systems, and modular supercapacitors are ready for use. These things can make their way into a number of types of ships. In fact, according to the article it's not just for surface warships either, but land-based and underwater systems as well.
     
  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    16,145
    1,196
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Where Germany leads, the rest of Europe (except maybe France and Hungary) usually follows. Britain is all ready to stop doing business with China. The Dutch need to protect their advanced computer ship industry from Chinese theft and manipulation, so that's a no-brainer. Sorry to break it to ya, but Europe seems to have been awakened to the hazards of doing business with China. Add in the fact that there are much safer locations in Asia to manufacture things cheaply, and things don't look so good for China these days.
     
  15. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

    2,077
    159
    293
    Apr 8, 2007
    Sad to say it but Germany is finished. They're the last industrial power in Europe, so really the whole of Europe is now finished. With their rapid de-industrialization and shifting political winds, they've got their hands full at home. Check out their chemical production:

    [​IMG]

    And look at their latest polling numbers. The far right AfD's numbers are skyrocketing.

    [​IMG]
    You can't really even blame the Ukraine war for this, they've been done for a while when they missed all the future tech whether it's chips or software/AI or renewables or EVs or telecom or quantum computers/communications. Cheap Russian gas was keeping them afloat by enabling their dominance of legacy industries, but now that that's gone they're done for good. The only thing left from all of Europe now is ASML, but they're using EUV tech licensed from the US, so when the world moves on from EUV they'll have zero company in the most advanced tech.

    With Europe under stress, liberalism will fade and right wing authoritarianism will rise. AfD with all their extremist and Nazi ties is about to become the 2nd most popular party in Germany, Marine Le Pen won 40% of the votes in the last French presidential elections, Italy has a far right PM already in Meloni, and Poland just passed an authoritarian judicial "reform" in defiance of the EU. Division and extremism will characterize European politics, not very much unlike here in the US.

    Moving goods purchases from China to other countries is really the least of their concerns, and not much of China's either. Those other countries are the quickest growing trade partners of China, and they're rapidly replacing China's traditional trade partners like the US, Europe, Japan, and SK. Per the latest Chinese trade data they now trade more with Latin America more than with the US, more with ASEAN than with the EU, more with Africa than with Japan, and more with Russia than with Germany. These numbers are all still growing despite a global downturn in trade numbers, cushioning the blow of the economic slow down in the West.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,589
    2,835
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    That's a crazy view of Europe economically. Economically, Europe is still a powerhouse. They are threatened by disunity in fiscal Union and the pressures of immigration far greater than we have, which will be especially destabilized with climate change. But their economic decisions will not be the source of decline, if it happens, especially towards manufacturing
     
  17. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

    2,077
    159
    293
    Apr 8, 2007
    They won't fall in a day, for sure, but the writing's been on the wall for over a decade now. The EU's GDP in 2008 was $16.3 trillion, and in 2021 was $17.1 trillion. That's a 5% growth in 13 years. In the same time period the US grew from $14.8 trillion to $23.3 trillion, a 57% increase.

    They're starting from a large base, so it'll take time for their position to fall, but where are you gonna find growth in Europe? What's changed the last 13 years that'll allow them to grow again? When chips move on from EUV and transportation becomes battery/hydrogen based, they'll literally have no industry left. The only industry they'd have remaining will be manufacturers from the US or China making stuff using American and Chinese tech/components to avoid tariffs/VAT.
     
  18. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,589
    2,835
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Where are you getting your numbers, as membership has not been constant and that doesn’t sound correct?

    Looks like Macrotrends but methodology not explained. Not making sense with changing membership and integration issues. Don’t think manufacturing is that big a ro,e
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2023
  19. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,589
    2,835
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,639
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    My thinking is that the U.S. and Europe are going to slowly lose ground as other countries industrialize and start manufacturing and selling to the global market. Right now, India, Vietnam, and Thailand are gaining ground. In another 5-10 years, there will be a new set of new countries that are successful. I don't think that Europe is headed for any kind of dramatic fall. The chart above only indicates that Germany is going through a recession. That's perfectly normal. The U.S. is going through a recession as well, particularly with regard to things like chemical sales.

    The important thing is that the west has recognized that totalitarian states cannot be trusted. Bill Clinton picked up on an old idea (Henry Kissinger?) that if you made a country like China wealthy, then the people would demand democracy and get it. The U.S. continued to hope for this idea to succeed through the GWB and Obama administrations, and it never did. A totalitarian gov't will use additional money to spend on its military, and to spy on its own people. They are not inclined to play by the rules of international business. If something is available to be stolen, they will steal it or buy it illegally, whether that is technology, fish, or rhino horn. If there is an advantage to bribing someone in power in another country, they will do that too. They use state assets to hack into other countries' computer systems and find their weak points for future use. If they make a mistake, they will cover it up and use the event as an opportunity to take advantage of the rest of the world. These are countries (China and Russia) that the U.S. and Europe should not be doing business with. We now seem to understand this.

    I am o.k. with the U.S. losing a little ground economically to countries that play by the rules and are not looking to invade, abuse, rob or extort their neighbors.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1