Golf Courses and Hotels in Florida State Parks

preserves are separated from development by lakes minimum 150' wide or 10' tall panther fencing so either the panther has to swim at least 150' or they have to scale the fences that were designed by biologists to prevent them from being able to cross. Not sure if the biologists' assertions (USFWS, FWC, and others) that they won't swim the lakes is correct or not. I believe there is some what if language getting added to the special conditions that if they do start swimmin, fences will have to be added to backside of lakes. what are your thoughts on black bears and/or panthers swimming across the lakes to get to the development? During dry season, assuming a 4' dry season drop, the actual water surface will decrease to 118' minimum. I'm curious to watch how the mammal population responds to the improved habitat and python and hog control. Interesting bid package, inspect property, monitor trail cams, remove exotic reptiles and mammals. Thought we were done when FDEP was permitting it and was ready for permit issuance then the rug got pulled out after 7 years and now we just got assigned out 4th different ACOE reviewer in the last 4 months. At least this is one we know, in Florida, and seems to get things done. Bad part is that since he seems to be the best ACOE has to offer right now, they are overloading him.

@G8trGr8t .The permitting process in FL has got to be supremely frustrating. One could conceivably spend a career at dealing with one project. I was involved in planning process for SR-40 thru Ocala NF and in our files there were letters from the 1980s addressing the project - most of it still hasn't happened.

If a bear smells food a 150’ lake is nothing. Nothing. They are good swimmers. Not sure who might have OK'd that but I realize that such permits are often accompanied by pressure from above. While working in Naples i had to go to the docks to rescue a shrimp boat crew who had locked themselves in the cabin to escape the bear they had "rescued" 0.5 miles into the Gulf. Panthers will do it too. They have swum the Caloosahatchee River including a female for whom those type of geographic features often represent the limit of a home range. When I was tracking the experimental cougars in N. FL and Ga, One traversed the width of the Okefenokee NWR and another crossed the Altamaha River at flood stage when the river was up out of its banks and into the forest on each side for a long, long ways and had a strong current. Yeah, they swim when they want to.

 

Florida agency postpones meetings about state park plans, citing ‘overwhelming interest’

 

It isn't approved yet but there were lots of eyes on it and fdep was ready to approve it before the judge stopped the fdep assumption. Lots of rules for bears, bear proof garbage cans, no grills left out, no bird feeders etc but as wer as it is not many bears in the area. Even have to issue info about some disease the panthers carry that can infect cats in the booklet to be provided to every home owner. You know better than I but panthers don't want to be around people so they have no incentive to swim the lakes. Hopefully that natural loner syndrome will pair with the I really don't like swimming to keep them out of yards. Bears, that's a whole different story. Not long ago one was out on a boat at Naples dock a d then proceeded to spend the night roaming 5th avenue

 

Dozens of community members protest against proposed development at Anastasia State Park

 

It would be nice to have some cheaper courses retiree's could afford

 

Lots of public courses, many closing. Cheap course Fees mean tax dollars. The courses already exist if folks want to change to fee structure.

 

as long as you aren't using state parks land, land that was bought to preserve, to build golf courses on. are you in favor of destroying preserve land to build golf courses?

 

Do you play golf? I’d hardly say that’s destructive.

 

not much anymore but I grew up maintaining golf courses, worked my way thru engineering building golf courses, and worked for Pete Dye and Nicklaus designing them for 7 years so I know a little bit about what it takes to build them and maintain them, clear trees for 120+ acres (without a major clubhouse facility), move significant amounts of dirt to shape the courses, use millions of gallons of water a year, use fertilizers and pesticides by the ton. None of which are activities consistent with state parks. How many have you built? have cleared hundreds of acres and burned thousands of trees in the process. from memory 30 years back
Ravines CC Middleburg - new build
Deep Creek CC Pt Charlotte - new build
South Seas plantation Captiva - rebuild
LaGorce CC Miami Beach - rebuild
Country Club of Ocala - rebuild
Black Diamond Ranch Lecanto - new build
TPC tournament course, Ponte Vedra rebuild portions
TPC Valley Course, Ponte Vedra - - new build
Barrington CC Ohio - new build
Glenmoor CC - Akron new build
Nevillewood CC Pittsburgh - new build
and one in Charlotte NC that I can't recall name of along with several others that we rebuilt tee and green complexes on

Playing golf doesn't qualify one to determine the impacts anymore than driving a car qualifies you to design a roadway.

you really picked the wrong guy to call out here

 

Congrats on being an anti golf course course builder. To be fair I don’t really give a damn if we build them or not and certainly don’t want my tax money used for them. I do find beauty in most courses. I just think this is the latest media Desantis attack and I’m unsure why.

 

incredible piece of ground. I started working there with McCumber Group when I was 14. Ron Garl and Mark McCumber collaboration. Used to hunt that ground before it became a golf course. The new highway out there may give it a second life

 

again, so so wrong, not anti-golf at all, just know that they are not consistent with state parks intent. . got two golf courses on land that I am engineering right now in Collier County. Best job I ever had, loved building golf courses, especially on land where the topo the designer had was wrong and we could "fit it in" (pete dye term) Black Daimond, Nevillewood were favorites. as a shaper with some freedom, you could be an artist with a bulldozer and 120 acres of land instead of a paint brush and a canvas

forgot the Dye Preserve Club in Jupiter., links style int he middle of the swamp, had some wild parties with PB Dye back in the day, that man was a wild man when the party started, I was no slacker but PB scared me at times... Pete and Alice would walk the course with myself and Bondo (another shaper) and he would tell us what he wanted to see and we would go shape it out. Pete never drew a single plan for that course, just walked and talked and we dug and shaped.

got too political when you moved up the chain and I was from the wrong side of the tracts. grew up on a bulldozer, not in a clubhouse. It's why LaGorce flooded the surrounding houses so bad and why I got cut from the Nicklaus team when I kept telling Jack what his son in law, Bill O Leary and his boys (dawg with a nole son) was telling us to do was going to cause major flooding. It got done their way, flooded everyone out, caused the Nicklaus construction group to go out of business. I was proven right, still lost my job. Golf courses are one of the few things that you can build that look better 30 years later

 

10? how did you handle the carries across the ravines? take the penalty and the drop and save the ball?

 

I think that is why the course didn't get enough play and went under. No way a lot of the older retired folks could carrie some of the ravines.

 

You’ve got a lot of republicans officials lining up against it, you’ve got citizens protesting it, so much interest they’re having to move the meetings to larger venues. Conservatives on Too Hot opposed.
And you think it’s just a media attack?

 

I do because otherwise you’d never hear about it.