Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Gainesville in National news - A college town takes on exclusionary zoning

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by slayerxing, Jul 29, 2022.

  1. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    4,938
    840
    2,078
    Aug 14, 2007
    A College Town Takes On Exclusionary Zoning

    Single-family zoning could soon be a thing of the past in one of the nation’s biggest classic college towns, with lawmakers set to vote next week on a proposal that would effectively eliminate it. If the measure passes, Gainesville, Florida — home of the University of Florida — would join cities such as Minneapolis and Tacoma, Washington, as well as states such as California and Oregon, that have seized on zoning reform as a solution to the housing affordability crisis.

    The change looks likely to pass, with four out of seven Gainesville city commissioners expressing support so far. That’s a promising sign for a growing national zoning-reform movement that has found success in higher-cost Democratic cities and states but has yet to find footholds in smaller cities and red states.

    Single-family zoning grew out of exclusion, preventing the construction of affordable rental housing in wealthy neighborhoods. Supporters of the Gainesville proposal frame it both as an affordable housing strategy and as part of a remedy for economic and racial segregation. In Gainesville, like in many other American cities, zoning schemes shaped by Jim Crow contributed to a residential pattern with largely white single-family neighborhoods and few denser communities where many of the city’s Black residents live.

    “It’s an equity issue, it’s an affordability issue, and ultimately it’s a supply-and-demand issue,” said Poe. “Our problems are just getting worse, and until we eliminate those structural barriers, we’re not going to see an improvement.” According to Gainesville Is for People, the housing crisis has pushed development deeper into the outskirts of Gainesville, past Interstate 75 to the west and toward Newnans Lake to the east, lengthening commutes, contributing to congestion, and threatening local conservation land.


    ___
    Interesting issue locally trying to tackle the affordable housing crisis. According to the shimberg center at UF, there is a huge need for housing in Gainesville for people living in the 0-50% Area Median Income, excluding students. About 8500 families in that income bracket are housing burdened. Housing is usually considered to be affordable if it costs no more than 30% of household income, so people paying more than that are considered burdened.

    Gainesville has tried to tackle this issue, often badly, and the explosion of costly high rises in the center of town near campus has not helped things. UF has been a thorn in the side of affordable housing too as they have tried to turn the 13th street and university ave. corner of campus into a pedestrian friendly "experience" for students and they've attracted big companies to come in and build costly apartments so students can have that ideal walking around student experience.

    But a lot of suburbanites, even those on the east side of town, are pissed at this. No one knows for sure if it's going to work. But a lot of people are watching to see what happens.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  2. Gator515151

    Gator515151 GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 4, 2007
    I would be against that 100%. About 10 years ago they built condos in my back yard. I should have fought them tooth and nail but didn't. The separation fencing is inadequate, they caused drainage issues and I have occasional noise issues. Mixing single family & multi family is BS unless it is carefully planned.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    4,938
    840
    2,078
    Aug 14, 2007
    Well they aren't talking about big apartment complexes anymore - that's not the vision, the vision is more duplexes-quadplexes mixed in with single family houses. But similar to a lot of what this mayor and the commission have done recently, they tend to go ready-fire-aim, and it seems like this is happening with this zoning issue as well.

    As a suburbanite, I have my concerns too. I wish they were making a more informed decision, and ensuring that the rule change actually ends up making affordable housing, and not just more high rises.
     
  4. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

    15,703
    26,012
    3,363
    Aug 6, 2008
    Tampa
    This will cause nothing but problems and drive property values down.

    People want single family homes to be away from the density and have a small yard to call their own.

    And I own a condo in a multi unit building.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    35,331
    1,741
    2,258
    Apr 8, 2007
    I don’t like it
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    15,776
    2,033
    1,718
    Dec 9, 2010
    It is the smart move in many areas. Housing is getting more and more unaffordable and I am yet to hear a better solution than more supply. Unless an area's lack of density is itself valuable through some sort of spillover (e.g., historic areas), it doesn't make sense to keep density low when prices are sky high. Not sure it is needed in particular in Gainesville (I don't keep up with the real estate market there), but somebody needs to increase supply of housing within cities, as continued sprawl isn't really a great solution in most places.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,109
    11,993
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    it won't work, the price that will have to be paid to accumulate enough lsingle family lots/land to generate units will not be a land basis that leads to affordable housing. There is nothing stopping the city from granting MF status in a rezone today if their comp plan allows it and somebody requests it. If not, they can amend the comp plan so that MF is allowable anywhere but they would have to demonstrate how the two uses are compatible. Most first year land planners could tell you that there needs to be buffers and gradation of intensities. There is another element to this in that amending things universally like this may lead to claims of taking as the high density development may devalue the SF property next door.

    the major cost of housing is the building, not the land, so until that is addressed, they will not touch the affordable housing problem.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    15,776
    2,033
    1,718
    Dec 9, 2010
    I could see this, but I doubt there is much that a local government can do to make the materials cheaper. I'd guess the first movers will be certain large real estate investors that have been buying up rental properties to up their revenue where they already have contiguous property.
     
  9. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

    2,621
    820
    2,078
    Nov 2, 2015
    NIMBY
     
  10. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    3,691
    794
    2,088
    Apr 24, 2007
    Oh this is just a great idea. Who knew that Gainesville FL would experience urban flight in our lifetimes.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

    10,677
    1,337
    1,718
    Apr 8, 2007
    We have a new single family development in my county I recently saw where the county obviously let the builder shirt a bunch of normal regulations, like smaller lot size and set backs, and the roads don't even curbs or sidewalks (no room really) ... Looks like shit. I assume this was done in the name of "low income" housing, but they are all still $400k+. Pretty sad situation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    4,938
    840
    2,078
    Aug 14, 2007
    Yeah the general consensus is that just changing the zoning alone won’t do crap to help and even the mayor said that too. The problem is there really doesn't seem to be a greater plan right now.
     
  13. thomadm

    thomadm VIP Member

    2,794
    682
    2,088
    Apr 9, 2007
    The unsaid goal here is to artificially lower property values by making your neighbors be businesses, duplexes and condos. This will backfire badly, as most of the wealthy will move outside the city limits and make the situation worse. Dumbest proposal I've seen yet.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,549
    2,782
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Matt Yglesias will be on this. He has written on this issue forever.
     
  15. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,549
    2,782
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Here is one of many Yglesias pieces addressing the issue. I am not endorsing this, but he is bringing me around a bit. I hate building that reduces trees, which is my NIMBYism.

    Homeowners should be YIMBYs
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    4,938
    840
    2,078
    Aug 14, 2007
    great read thanks
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,109
    11,993
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    They would do better to allow higher density in exchange to providing 10 - 15% of the units to workers required for essential community industries at a certain rate based on average incomes. Teachers, medical care, fire, police, gubmnt employees, grocery store employees....let the community make the list ...much more effective
     
  18. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    4,938
    840
    2,078
    Aug 14, 2007
    city also doesn’t have a plan to manage the extra traffic that comes from higher density. Poe at a city meeting tried to argue that that building more apartments in suburban neighborhood would reduce traffic because people would walk more lol. Idiot.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,109
    11,993
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    If you achieve critical mass to support diversity of small business and raise parking costs you can discourage car ownership. Same density also promotes sufficient volumes for mass transit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    4,938
    840
    2,078
    Aug 14, 2007
    long term. Eventually. Maybe. How big would Gainesville have to get before they saw any of those benefits? Especially without a spelled out plan to get there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1