Florida woman forced to give birth to a baby that will die immediately

Said it several times in other posts, thanks to the "prolifers" it's only a matter of time before there will be an incident in the US similar to what has happened in Ireland and Poland and in the end it probably will not matter to them since as far they're concerned the tragic but rare death of an adult woman is a price worth paying to save millions of fetuses.
Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital
Polish state has ‘blood on its hands’ after death of woman refused an abortion

 

If you guys would just admit that you want to be able to kill a baby on your own terms to relieve the responsibility of child rearing in the majority of cases then at least we could begin to have an honest conversation. Hiding behind the world choice is disingenuous at best when part of the equation is that you are advocating ending a life. You are in fact ending the life of a human being. There is absolutely no honest way to escape that fact.

 

“Admit to the lie I just made up, and then we can have an honest conversation”.

 

And if you guys would admit that you're more pro-forced birth than pro-child maybe we could have an honest conversation. While opposing abortion a good percentage of so called conservatives condemn a woman who elects to have a child especially out-of-wedlock and needs financial assistance to support herself and the child as a parasitic irresponsible deadbeat, the cartoon below saying it all.

 

I guess I see some ambiguity and uncertainty on this issue n the specifics, which makes sense as it is a difficult issue. References as “I think” or “I believe”. Given all that, how are you comfortable support politicians and laws that want to force these uncertain beliefs on everybody else, with a consequent loss of rights?

I respect people being pro life. What I don’t respect is he minority thinking these views should be enforced on the majority of people who don’t share these believes.

 

I’m not going to admit something I don’t believe. You use incorrect terms. You keep saying “baby”. It is an embryo or fetus, not a baby. As to “human being”, it certain has human characteristics and tissue, but so does detached human tissue, or a completely brain dead person on life support. The early fetus does not have any cognition, no memories, no feeling, no pain, not even a fully functioning circulatory system. Terminating a an early term fetus/embryo causes no suffering and you are ending a life that really never started.

 

Such a ridiculous red herring.

 

Take out baby and life and human being and I agree wholeheartedly

 

First, I always appreciate the way you handle this topic, especially your willingness to explain the personal ramifications.

As for your question...This is where it gets dicey though right? Isn't every vote at some level forcing ones beliefs on another?

If some one votes for Obama arent they forcing health care on those who may not want to buy in? (I support HC reform as you know... Just an example)

Didnt voting for Roy Cooper here in NC force alot of businesses to close against their will during covid?

Every vote elects a person that will force unwanted beliefs on another. Vaccine mandates, masks, forcing you to have health coverage or get hit with a fine, abortion... The list is endless.

 

Everyone is pro forced birth. You just have a different line than someone else.

Unless you support free abortion with no restrictions up until birth, you are pro forced birth.

That cartoon is hogwash too. You should research who adopts the most children and who the largest child aid organizations are affiliated with.

But you are forced birth too.

 

Again, what are the extremes on each side? I assume on the right you mean no exceptions for anything. What is your extreme on the left?

 

Well for starters the "forced birth" mantra is an extreme position because 8t can only be held by someone OK with abortion at 9 months of a healthy baby.

I dont consider the viability argument to be an extreme position, I just strongly disagree with that line.

 

No?

 

Really? There were no requirements to take part? No fines levied by the IRS?

 

Glad to hear you don't consider a ban after 15 weeks extreme. But as far as your take on 'forced birth' that's a false distinction for your convenience. You don't like the 'forced birth' tag so you are trying to make it seem like almost everyone is actually for forced birth. But there is a huge difference between forcing a woman who is one month pregnant to give birth and forcing a woman who is 8 months pregnant to give birth. You concede that yourself by saying you don't consider the viability argument to be an extreme position.

 

This is true, but there are degrees. Most of these are matter of policy. Taxes. Spending. Regulation. They are a reflection of societal objectives, which do incorporate some values but also incorporate some degree of practicality as we can’t live in a lawless free for all and some governance is needed.

I see the abortion as an extremely high negative impact on the parties affected, and very low impact on the parties advocating advocating for eliminating abortion. It is one thing to say you have to wear a mask, or pay taxes, or even get a shot, it is another to be forced against your will to endure a pregnancy and maybe even raise a child. You can say “but adoption” but in reality do you really think of pro lifers got their wish and eliminated 1 million abortions a year all those kids would be adopted? Even putting that aside you are mandating the woman endure the physical and economic risks and consequences of a pregnancy, as well as family members, primarily because a minority of the population, based mostly on their religious belief, thinks this is what God wants.

 

And a perfect illustration of hypocrisy.

 

You use embryo and fetus to make yourself feel better about ending life. Is a toddler not a precursor to an adult in the same manner? How do you “know” the baby is feeling no pain? It’s been wildly debunked that the theory of having virtually no neuro pathways for pain in a baby is a complete sham. This a a morality issue at its heart.

 

Do you mean the tax if you refused to buy insurance? Because if that's your rationale, there are a whole lot of things I'm "supporting" due to taxes that I don't necessarily agree with.

 

Based on polls and surveys going back decades a majority of the American electorate would support a reasonable compromise under which elective abortions would be permitted prior to a certain point in pregnancy maybe around the 16th week of gestation when there is detectable brain activity in the fetus followed by a period in which abortions would be permitted only based on medical necessity probably defined as jeopardy to the life or health of the mother and/or a severe fetal anomaly in which death in utero or shortly after birth is likely. The problem is the advocates on both sides of the issue refuse to compromise. The so called prolifers would permit abortion only in cases in which there is a very high probability (the possibility would not be sufficient) that continued pregnancy would result in the death of the mother while the extremists on the prochoice side oppose any restrictions based on the slippery slope argument.