Florida woman forced to give birth to a baby that will die immediately

Your position lacks logical coherence.

 

First brain activity begins around week 6.

 

The brain begins developing around week 6. Other than very rudimentary activity similar to that of insects which begins at week 8, actual activity doesn't begin until weeks later (click on the links).

Some people are concerned with abortions after six weeks of pregnancy because that is when a basic spinal cord and nervous system first develop, but it is not until week eight (six weeks post-fertilisation) that the first rudimentary brain activity – the kind that is observed in organisms as simple as insects – can be observed. The very beginnings of our higher brain structures only start to appear between weeks 12 and 16. Crucially, the co-ordinated brain activity required for consciousness does not occur until 24-25 weeks of pregnancy. We cannot say when consciousness first emerges, but it cannot rationally be called before the end of the second trimester at 24 weeks of pregnancy.​

 

'The Ethical Brain' (Published 2005)

“Higher brain structures.”

Thats a cop out to try and draw the line for personhood wherever you want.

“Even though the fetus is now developing areas that will become specific sections of the brain, not until the end of week 5 and into week 6 (usually around forty to forty-three days) does the first electrical brain activity begin to occur.”

From the New York Times

 

A lot of people in the abortion debate work their way backwards.

They find a convenient point in time to define life (or personhood) where the fetus is underdeveloped enough so they can dig their heads in the sand so they don’t feel guilty about what they’re doing, but developed enough to have more than large enough of a window to make up your mind and end the pregnancy.

They’re trying to make morality both clean and convenient to suit our lifestyles, when that defeats the entire purpose of morality. If you can tailor morality to any culture or lifestyle, what you’re left with is a society with rules that are completely malleable, or as I would prefer to call it, “a society without rules.” What you’re left with is Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

Finding a rule the vast majority agree with != society without rules. Except for those in a fringe minority who might want to exercise their inflexible rule over others.

 

From the same linked article:

As I previously stated while brain structures begin developing around the 6th week functionality doesn't occur until many weeks later.

 

Good god you’re worse than Plank.

I think most people try to find the most rational solution that is compatible with our values that values a woman’s right to control what happens to her body vs whatever rights we choose to assign to a developing fetus. Most people will draw that line somewhere between when a fetus has enough features that really differentiate and mark an actual life that is uniquely human, which one can set between 15 weeks and viability.

A small minority of religious fundamentalists like you and Plank and Tilly start by trying to extrapolate their personal view and interpretation of the religious morality of such an event, and let that drive their opinion.

 

What is the source of your authority to impose your definitions and positions outside of your household?

 

I'd say place the issue on state ballots for constitutional amendments but conservative judges will still figure out a way to deny it

 

Arbitrary terms and lines used to pinpoint a convenient place to define personhood.

 

I brought up Sodom and Gomorrah only as an example of the flaw in tailoring morality to society’s values as some sort of ethical relativist.

My argument against abortion is entirely rooted in logic and science. I’m stubborn on the issue of when life begins because a lot of pro-abortion advocates lie to others and themselves about this to make the decision to have an abortion a lot easier.

I disagree with but respect the honesty of people who acknowledge that life begins at conception, but abortion provides a net good for society somewhere between the first trimester and viability. There is a pathway to a genuine ethical argument in abortion’s favor even under the premise that life begins at conception but I think me and most people understand that long-term it’s a losing argument, which is why we battle so much over “when life begins.”

And the problem is the vast majority of this board won’t even grant you that life begins at conception.

 

Where is yours?

Somebody’s positions and definitions are going to have to win at the expense of somebody else’s.

 

A good question that applies equally to all of us in so very many situations and on so many different issues.

For instance, if someone wants to be referred to as “zie” do they have the authority to forcefully impose that desire on others?

 

Nobody is trying to force you or anybody of your household to have an abortion.

 

Everyone who favors abortion has already been born.

“Nobody is forcing you to kill your child.”

 

Yes “life” begins at conception, but that in itself is meaningless. There are all kinds of life that we place little value in. We don’t think twice about stomping on a bug. Even “human life” in itself is an ambiguous term. Individual or groups of cells in human tissue are “human” and “alive”. A sperm or an egg is a human life broadly speaking But even putting that aside, we don’t grant a right to life to all people we assign personhood status too. We execute prisoners, we kill in war, we knowingly kill “collateral damage”. The right to life is something we choose to assign.

So this “human life” word game is something less sophisticated pro lifers engage in to rationalize their pro life positions, largely brought about by their religious beliefs.

 

We don’t wantonly kill innocent people, then pretend it’s amoral or even a moral good.

I think a huge step in the right direction is people who have abortions expressing remorse that they had one rather than almost wishing they had more or treating it as casual birth control.

 

Not that it is relevant here, but yes we do.

So you want to shame them so that you will feel better?

 

Where?

And no I don’t want to shame them so I feel better. The first step to positive change is admitting wrongdoing, I want the world and the culture to change, and the first step to doing that is genuine acknowledgement of fault or wrongdoing. It doesn’t even have to be public, as long as they know and they want to be better.