Florida Dept. of Health no longer supports treatment of gender dysphoria for minors

I'm not sure you really want to start comparing the rights of a 10 year old to an aborted fetus. Particularly given the already precarious state of abortion rights.

 

I'll defer to again what the medical experts say. Which is prescribing puberty blockers is often the best course of action in certain cases. And I'll again defer to the studies that show by prescribing blockers, it lowers the suicide rate by 40%. Given this knowledge, why can't those with authority, with consent of the child, be able to make these type of decisions? Especially since these decisions aren't permanent and can easily be reversed?

 

Some of you guys are really putting the LIB in LIBertarian.

 

The point is that parents can consent to medical care for their kids and what you said as being the default is something you made up out of whole cloth.

 

Inaccurate? I've posted the data, Tilly. These treatments reduce the risk of suicide by 40%. Spare me the nonsense about age of consent laws. It's even less relevant to this thread than tattoos. I'm not interested in your red herrings.

Am I supposed to care what other Democrats think? It wasn't that long ago that Democrats were willing to work with Republicans to throw gay people to the wolves. A whole lot of people, including people in my own party, don't understand transgender people. And that lack of understanding is harmful. I can only hope that they will remain openminded and seek to understand them and the relevant medical interventions better.

 

Stop acting like the book is closed medically on this.

Truth is the blockers are only deemed safe for short term use, and issues of bone density, brain development and future fertility are still unanswered.

This is still a fairly new area of study in the grand scheme and there is a lot still unknown.

 

If you want to talk about comparative harms, denying transgender people these evidence-based treatments causes more harm than allowing transgender people to access them with their consent, parental consent, and doctor approval. It is baffling to me that y'all think causing harm to children in the aggregate is worth the tradeoff of a far smaller group making a choice they later regret.

There are opportunity costs to everything. Greater harm is caused by the government getting involved to deny these treatments to consenting parties (with doctor approval) than is caused by the government staying out of it.

I decided not to press this point earlier to avoid making this thread about abortion, but I imagine you are pro-choice and believe that a minor should be able to get an abortion (maybe with parental consent, maybe without it). Am I wrong?

How can you square that belief with your stance here? It seems irreconcilable to me.

And if your argument is that there's a limited window that can't wait until adulthood, I will simply point out that the same is true here.

 

True, but the short term gains are obvious. 40% reduction in suicide rates. Not to be crass, but who cares about the fertility of someone who killed him/herself before they reached the age of 18?

And I'll ask again, who is the most qualified to be making decisions? The state? Or a combo of the kid, parents, and qualified medical professionals?

 

I am not discounting the input of medical professionals. I am just pointing out the fact that they have a lot of questions themselves. Brain function later vs suicides now. It seems like an obvious answer until we find out it isnt.

The medical data is quite early on this stuff and still inconclusive in a number of important metrics.

There is a good NYT piece out there.
It cites some studies that tout the benefits but is also careful to mention the still do be determined impact on other areas.

It is unfair to say that people cant have a contrary view and it also can be based on medical study.

 

I generally agree with you but I bolded the word "qualified" because of our current state Surgeon General. Let's not forget that were talking about so-called "expert" medical advice, though anyone who knows what's going on as there is nothing medical or expert about the guidance being given

 

Looking at the study you're referencing, it appears the age range starts at 13 and goes to 24, so I'm not sure how helpful it is in analyzing the effects of pre-pubescent hormone therapy.

It's also looking retroactively at people who still identify as trans, which ignores the segment of the population that folks are most concerned about--kids who think they might be transgender, but later change their minds. Pharmacological hormone treatments could do a lot of damage to the development of a person like that.

Finally, I'm not sure you can infer that hormone therapy itself causes the reduction in suicide rate. According to the study, people who receive hormone therapy have much higher rates of parental support, which logically will reduce mental health problems. There's no question that kids who feel that their parents dislike who the will have much bigger issues than those who don't, regardless of therapy. Among the people who actually have parent support, what's the effect of hormone therapy? I don't see any answer to that in the study.

I'm just not convinced. If you want to talk about treatments for 15 or 16 year olds, who have gone through the changes that puberty brings and are having a real tough time coping, I'd be willing to think about that. Prepubescent children, however, I just can't get on board. Loose stats derived from a non-causal survey addressing the wrong age range aren't going to change my mind on that.

 

Frankly, nobody should have to convince you of anything. If you are uncertain about the costs and benefits here and want to make your own choices about your own children, that's your business. But that doesn't give you the right to deny other parents and their children access to treatments their medical professionals recommend. You are welcome to your uncertainties, but your uncertainties shouldn't dictate medical policy.

 

I've not given the comparison much thought, but abortion doesn't interfere with a girl's development in the same way as gender treatments. It simply re-sets the status quo.

 

Abortions are very safe, but they aren't without risks either, some of them permanent. And its not like anti-abortion people don't use mental anguish or regret in their rhetoric about apposing abortion for everyone, even adults. There is a cottage industry of people they've rolled out who say they regretted their abortions.

 

That's your perspective, but as a practical matter, if you can't convince your own party to oppose laws like these, you have zero chance at making any real headway in getting them scrapped/changed.

 

This is a decree for the FL Dept. of Health, not a law anyone voted on or had a chance to oppose or debate. I'm not even sure if it has any binding force when it comes to what doctors can do, TBH. Likewise, the same goes for the order in Texas. Came directly from the governor, no debate, no law. Just the heavy hand of the state.

 

This. 100%. If qualified medical professional, the parents, and the child all agree that puberty blockers are the best course of action, who is anyone to step in and stop the treatment? If you are a parent of a trans kid, you should, along with the kid and the doctors involved, be empowered to what you believe is the best decision. If you don't agree with the puberty blockers, then don't approve them for your own kid. But others should be free to make these decisions, especially given all current medical information that's out there.

If in the future, the studies show drastically different results, then the recommendations will change. It's possible this might happen, given how new all this really is, and how little study has been done. But for now, the studies and convention among medical professional who deal with trans kids all agree that blockers are the best course of action for certain trans kids that fit a criteria. Again, no kid who has never shown and trans identity can wake up, declare to be trans, and get prescribed blockers that day. But for kids approaching puberty, who have for years been living as trans, these blockers have shown to do more good than any harm.

 

Debate happens in the FL legislature? I thought they just did whatever King Ron wanted.

Regardless, I'm in the camp where I won't go out and demand a law banning this stuff, but I probably won't oppose one either. So if you're in favor of the status quo, my suggestion would be to lay low and not put this issue on the radar of the folks who would be motivated to make a change.

 

As a practical matter, the way to handle laws like these is to go to the courts. Maybe we win. Maybe we lose. But my party has often failed to do the right thing throughout history. Their willingness to trade away the rights of a marginalized group is nothing new.

 

Going to bump this up to post an open letter from 300 healthcare professionals published in the TB Times:
We 300 Florida health care professionals say the state gets transgender guidance wrong | Open letter
We write as a group of more than 300 Florida health care professionals who care for transgender and gender diverse youth. We have one common goal: to provide the best quality, evidence-based, individualized and compassionate care for our patients. Ultimately, we strive to empower each patient to achieve their optimal physical, mental, emotional and social health, and we want each person to feel that they are accepted and valued for who they are.

The recent statement issued by the Florida Department of Health entitled “Treatment of Gender Dysphoria for Children and Adolescents” misrepresents the weight of the evidence, does not allow for personalized patient and family-centered care, and would, if followed, lead to higher rates of youth depression and suicidality.

The Florida Department of Health guidance categorically recommends against social and medical gender transition for any patient under the age of 18. This directly contradicts existing guidelines from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. These national and international guidelines are the result of careful deliberation and examination of the evidence by experts including pediatricians, endocrinologists, psychologists and psychiatrists.
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But hey, what do all these UF medical professors really know?