Flashback: Biden lost temper with Zelenskyy

Oh, I am aware - but empty promises are empty promises.

The fallacy in your thinking is that Ukraine isn't a vital national interest worth security guarantees.

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/us-support-for-ukraine-advances-americas-interests/

 

By the same token, what is a “mineral deal” worth without some sort of continued military assistance? At best it’s putting the cart before the horse (signing future economic deals before there is a peace agreement!). How could Zelensky be in a position to give away his own country’s economic future without having a secured peace?

Maybe it would be too obvious if Trump just negotiated with dictator Putin for access to Ukraine’s resources (not that any deal with Russia would be worth the paper it’s printed on anyway or that Americans would see even $1 net benefit), but the ask here never made sense.

 

Biden publicly aired his grievances with Corn Pop as well.

 

I don’t want U.S. troops there but I bet the threat of their future deployment in response to an attack would help solidify the peace deal. When we take that chip off the table we just weaken our own negotiating position.

 

That’s exactly what he was doing by pointing out that a truce without a security guarantee is meaningless as Putin has violated every single prior guarantee.

 

Yeah, but when Biden lost his temper he wasn’t Trump while doing it.

 

I don't think a 'guarantee' from Trump means anything. Trump has no honor, no integrity. He has a long history of making deals and then refusing to pay what he owes. So I'm not sure why Zelensky would seek a guarantee from Trump in the first place. It's not worth the paper it's written on. It's clear Trump favors Putin anyway, so Zelensky needs to forget about Trump and focus on European support.

 

It's kind of fun to see you discuss these issues, and Trump's role in them, as if he's a normal President. Or human being even.

Specifically; can you think of anyone to or with whom Trump has honored his word, treated with respect and dignity, or fulfilled a commitment?

His multiple wives? His creditors? The numerous career generals that served multiple roles in his first administration? The other cabinet members? Former lawyers? Anyone? The only people he's ever shown loyalty to are those he needs/needed fealty from regarding testimony in his multiple criminal cases, or lackeys who stayed in line.

So it's kind of fun to see you and other Trump supporters pretend that these "negotiations" Trump is pretending to lead are even real in the first place. What kind of fool would trust an agreement with Trump, unless they could get paid up front?

 

I don’t have any evidence, but from just the reactions of Trump and Vance, Zelenskyy probably cocked it up. He obviously had no security guarantees and tried to bring it up in front of the press. He shouldn’t have done that. I think that is what set off the attack. He probably should have negotiated that part with the EU. JMO.

 

What set off the attack? Hmmmm. Zelenskyy has met with dozens of world leaders, diplomats and legislative bodies in many countries. Numerous delegations of officials have met him in Ukraine. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY negotiates or discusses sensitive issues in front of a press pool -- it is always behind closed doors.

Vance deliberately hijacked the last question that was supposed to be coming from a press member. He decided to mention Zelenskyy going to Pennsylvania in 2024. Zelenskyy never knew what hit him after that.

FYI- the Penn visit was with Gov Shapiro (not running for anything) to visit an ammo plant and thank the workers. Zelenskyy also met WITH CANDIDATE DONALD TRUMP in New York several days later. Did Vance bring that up? Of course not. Is it any wonder Zelenskyy seemed confused.

FACTS MATTER (or should)

 

People for some reason dutifully dismiss the first 40 minutes of the meeting, reportedly calm discussion, before Zelensky became belligerent.

I do acknowledge that, at the root of Zelensky’s hubris and entitlement is the Trump and Biden administration convincing Zelensky to feed his country to Russia in the hopes that the latter would choke.

 

Ukraine should be dissolved and the US take the part that isnt russian. We will make it so great, just like Gaza. All we need is a Big, Beautiful Bill and we are all good.

 

As Fareed Zakaria said on Bill Maher Friday night (I'm paraphrasing): Zelenskyy should have presented $Trump with a big Ukrainian award (none like it) that came with a big medal. He should have asked for help to re-build Ukraine, including a big beautiful $Trump hotel in Kyiv. Then $Trump would have been suitably impressed.

 

Yes, facts do matter. There were many important items that were disclosed during the press briefing. Trump disclosed he talked to Putin. Trump basically said US companies digging for minerals put Russia in effectively a neutral zone. He further stated that European countries would have boots on the ground. At the 35th minute it started to unravel. Zelenskyy corrected Trump multiple times and the Poland question at 38 min was horrible and set up the derailment. When JD jumped in, Zelenskyy stupidly engaged with JD directly. If he just let it go about “diplomacy” he would have been fine.

If you have a different interpretation of Trump’s signals, let’s discuss those.

 

Zakaria nailed it. It it exactly what Zelenskyy should have done. But, he was ill prepared and failed to read Trump and Vance.

 

You seemingly want to credit Trump and Vance as honest good actors. They’re not. Not even close. No ordinary person would be offended by anything Zelenskyy said, particularly with the obvious language barrier issues.

 

Nope. Trump and Vance are in power and all I can do is vote opposition. Zelenskyy is fighting for his people’s life.


Answer me this:
Why did Zelenskyy feel compelled to ask JD a question?

It’s a press conference, not a negotiation in public.

 

Just retitle it the whataboutism thread.