Draft Alito opinion leaked overturning Roe

I only can speak for myself on this board-not what others type-and the points you've made are somewhat different than a poster typing waaaa waaaa waaaa. And for the recorc, I credit you in my almost 15 years here for probably being the most consistent pro life advocate on this board, whether or not I agree with you.

I noticed you've omitted rape cases from your exceptions above unless not forcing a woman to birth a child fathered by her pedo dad or uncle who raped her falls under her "well being", which it typically doesn't.

And BTW, it's nuanced but being pro choice doesn't necessarily mean pro-abortion. Example. My wife is as pro choice as you can be when it comes as a fundamental right. Yet when she had a significantly problematic pregnancy 20 about years ago, with serious viability and development issues, she (and I) chose NOT to abort and let the chips fall where they may, which would have meant a much more difficult life for us for as long as the child would have lived. Ultimately the pregnancy terminated itself about 4 weeks later but women having a RIGHT to choose is very different than an individual woman exercising that right of choice for herself.

 

What if the pregnant person is a man and the sperm donor is a woman?

But seriously religion has no part in deciding this. I’m sure you would agree with that.

But it is quite possible to still think abortion is ending a life, not on religious grounds but on biological

 

Republicans and libertarians aren’t against choice. Heck as we’ve seen they are much much more pro freedom than the left these days.

They just see the fetus as a life. Freedom doesn’t give you the authority to kill.

The real debate has never been about women (sarcastic gender war comment aside) but rather when does life begin.

 

That’s an interesting combination of words that can have different meanings. It could easily be used by those who oppose birth control.

 

I suppose the leak could have come from either side. I'm not familiar enough with the Court's workings. Does the fact that Alito was assigned to write the draft mean the rest of the majority agreed with his analysis and wanted to go as far as he does? Or is it possible that the others may water down his draft to be more in line with what we previously anticipated? If so, I guess it's possible that the leak could be an effort to shift the Overton window and/or reduce the blowback when the final Opinion is released.

 

A lot of the states pushing for a complete abortion ban are the country's poorest.

Like they need more mouths that they can't feed, educate, or house.

 

I am certainly not as learned about the courts as many on here, but I would think in theory public opinion should be irrelevant to Alito and the rest of the court. Their ideal job is to determine the legality of actions based on the previously constitution.

Now of course there is no such thing as a view from nowhere, so each justice is going to bring their own baggage to any judgement, but I don’t think that means that they should abdicate their responsibilities to their mental model of what the public might want. If Alito honestly thinks that the constitution doesn’t protect the right to abortion, then it would seem his duty to vote that way. It shouldn’t mean that he thinks liberals are untermensch.

 

I agree religion does not belong here. As I've said repeatedly I nor anyone else have the right to push beliefs onto others. I posted that because so many "pro lifers" use their religion/Bible as their defense for their views. I was pointing out the hypocrisy.

As to your men having babies thing if that were to happen you'd see free contraceptives, unlimited abortions, maternity leave more on par with what's offered in Europe, and a massive drop in population because no way would they do it a second time.

 

Sooner or later this will happen in one of the states where abortion is banned and it will be a complete game changer politically.
Protests flare across Poland after death of young mother denied an abortion
This is what happened in Ireland following a similar death in which a woman was denied an abortion.
Ireland votes by landslide to legalise abortion
Prior to the vote virtually all abortions were banned under the Irish Constitution. Also keep in mind that Ireland is overwhelmingly Catholic and that vote occurred despite the Church's strong opposition to the constitutional amendment.

 

Whether you believe in abortion or not, it should be a law passed by congress, not an opinion by the courts. Once again, congress and bipolar politics are failing the population.

 

The gender identity game begins. To satisfy the criteria then perhaps only those individuals that have a uterus (females) should be allowed to vote on the issue of abortion at a state level.

Can men become pregnant?

Anyone who has a uterus and ovaries could become pregnant and give birth.

People who are born male and living as men cannot get pregnant. A transgender man or nonbinary person may be able to, however.

It is only possible for a person to be pregnant if they have a uterus. The uterus is the womb, which is where the fetus develops. Male reproductive organs include testicles and a penis but no uterus.
​

AFAB - A female at birth may identify as a man. (gender identity) these people are biologically female and can get pregnant regardless if they take testosterone or not.

AMAB - A male at birth

A uterine transplant is a relatively new surgical procedure that involves transplanting a healthy uterus into a person’s body.

However, this surgery is still experimental, even for AFAB people with uterine factor infertility. There is not enough research to confirm whether AMAB people can conceive and carry a baby to full term.​

 

I wouldn’t put republicans and libertarians together on this issue. Or most social issues really.

“Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.”

Libertarian perspectives on abortion - Wikipedia

 

Our society allows killings on a selective basis-death penalty, self-defense, euthanasia (in some states) etc.. If a life is a life, why are those lives less valuable to our society? I know the answer always given is because either "they've done something wrong" or "they're dying anyway" but that logic simply allows 3d parties to re-value those lives, not the person whose life it may be.

Roe should have just called abortion another form of legal murder in the US 50 years ago and been done with it instead of dancing around vague constitutional rights that you can't point to and religion for half a century.

Hell, even RBG said it was faulty reasoning and should have been based on equal protection, not an amorphous right to privacy springing out of the Constitution. .

Why Ruth Bader Ginsburg Wasn’t All That Fond of Roe v. Wade (Published 2020)

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/ECM_PRO_059254.pdf

 

You're going to have a hard time falling back on the "we must protect life" and "freedom doesn't give you license to kill" arguments when you oppose vaccine mandates.

 

I know most MAGAs don’t read the constitution past the 2nd amendment, but it would seem to me that the 9th amendment would show Alito to be incorrect.

 

Not taking a Vaccine is not a guaranteed death. Abortion is death. Your logic is flawed.

 

A man cannot become pregnant. I recall a high profile OB/GYN as a describing a pregnant man as a hairy woman. Although this will undoubtedly trigger people on both sides of the issue, I do not consider a transgender female to male individual fully transitioned until such time as that person has had a complete hysterectomy/oophorectomy.

 

Absolutely. I was a prime candidate for an abortion in 1982, a surprise pregnancy during my junior year at UF. The Gainesville Women's Health Center was just down the street, and in fact, it's where I got my positive pregnancy test, and counseling about abortion. To keep the baby I dropped out of school, my fiancee left graduate school, and we moved in with parents while he looked for a good job with benefits (hello, Air Force.) It would have been so easy to eliminate that problem, and go on with our planned future.

It was my choice to keep the baby. It worked out great for us (I'm sure my daughter Hollie agrees) but everyone writes their own story, and has their own endings.

 

Similarly, this is the opinion of Barry Goldwater, at one time considered the father of the modern conservative movement. Today he would probably be classified as RINO.
Goldwater Opposes GOP on Abortion