DeSantis pandering again

That is FREAKING hilarious.

You claim Fauci was bulling. When asked to support that statement, you manufacture a "quote" and it isn't even a quote you attribute to Fauci but to the mainstream media.

Wow.

 

I think he's saying it's your starting point now; that it's not a political concession or middle ground you're willing to adopt but rather, the rape exception is what you think he law should be if you are starting from scratch and able to enact all of your policy preferences. I am not mocking your position by the way. It's a tough issue, and you're either going to be called a heartless extremist or inconsistent. But from a moral/ethical standpoint, I think it's fair to point out that permitting an abortion exception for the sake of fairness and compassion to the woman seems to ignore the rights of the developing life. Because how do we weigh fairness to the embryo or fetus when it had zero say in coming into existence?

Ultimately, I am not sure that your willingness to make an exception is much different than the way many people who consider themselves pro-choice feel about abortion generally. They will also cite compassion for the woman and say it should be her choice - at least up to a certain stage of development. Presumably, I doubt you or most people who lean pro-choice want abortions happening in month nine, whether the woman was raped or the sex was completely consensual. That, at least, suggests that few of us actually view an embryo the same as a nearly fully developed fetus. I think that is the point several posters are getting at.

 

I am 100% ok with this Grand Jury as long as they are also tasked with finding out if any others were spreading negative mis-info that may have caused harm as well.

Harm from being over protective - nil
Harm from being under protective - 1/2 million lives

FL is the poster child for how not to handle the pandemic.

 

Moving the goal posts but Ill go there...You just described like 3% of abortions.
You wanna add brain dead babies to the list of allowable? Lets roll.

Now lets stop killing the one's that have just as good of a chance of success as you or I did.

Your insults are noted. Good to know who I can have a rational conversation with and who I cant. My number is sadly shrinking here as some of you become more and more unable to have sensible debate.

 

Any chance you all could start an abortion thread and leave the off topic discussion to that one.

 

My "starting point now" , isnt my starting point. I have evolved in many ways from where I was on certain social issues.

 

Every thread has to be an abortion thread.
National Signing Day threads have literally had posts deleted for abortion content.

Seriously.

Heck this time I think it was my fault for a throwaway comment to GL. I shoulda known better. This ones on me.

 

and researching who made money on all the regeneron clinics and how the contract for that was awarded

 

Good post. I understand that no position wins. Frankly that isnt my goal. I could not care less of one side finds me fanatical and rigid while the other finds my compromise abhorrent.

I simply want the best policy in place that saves the most unborn.

You are correct that both sides have limits to their stance. Pro choice folks generally have a point where the "my body, my choice" thing hits its limit. (Viability, 6 months... whatever) Yet they act like only one side concedes on this matter.

Sadly, I know of at least two posters on this board who have stated on the record that abortion should be an option until delivery of a fully developed child.

 

an accumulation of cells is not a baby

One of my favorite quotes. If you wish to discuss with me, we must first define our terms

Baby

noun

1. 1.
   a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.

 

So you're ok with exterminating the baby at 6 weeks? Got it.

 

It’s hard to have a sensible debate when someone advocates governments forcing women, potentially family members, to give birth in order to save embryos and fetuses that are in no way - living being in a practical sense, no material brain functioning, no consciousness, no feeling, no memory, no history of brain functioning. The result can put huge burdens and dangers on some families. Force a woman to bring a fetus to term because you happen to think it is wrong, presumably due to your religious beliefs.

Your views will ruin the lives of many people, and make the lives for people like me worse, given circumstances I’ve explained before. So you will have to forgive us if it is hard for people like me to be cordial.

I can respect a belief that abortion is wrong. I don’t respect a belief that since it is “wrong” your minority view must be imposed upon me. And I really disdain when people use words like exterminate and say ridiculous stuff like doctors are doing this in order to make millions of dollars. That’s a Q anon level of idiotic rationalization in order to justify extreme measures like forcing you will on others.

So stick to your views if you want. But understand you will alienate some people so much that you just can’t bring up the subject-or if you do, this will be the result. You’ve accused me of being a far left fanatic based upon these conversations, but I think any objective measure of the sum total of my posting would show that on balance I’m one of the more moderate left leaning posters. Hell I don’t even have a big problem with a 15 week ban. I’d prefer viability but 15 weeks with some reasonable exceptions is workable.

 

Where did i say that? I am not "ok" with it, but I'm a realist who will take ot over a 13 week line.

 

So a baby, 9 months developed, fully healthy is not a human being before passing through the birth canal?

What are they at that point?
And should a woman maintain her right to abort up until that point?

 

For the record. I dont believe I've ever called you that. I have called your abortion position that, but not your views as a whole. We actually share several views iirc. I have also mentioned before how I try and maintain a sympathetic outlook for situations like yours which you have mentioned. I believe I have even told you that I feel YOUR situation constitutes a potential threat to a mothers life which would fit under what my personal beliefs see as OK.

 

I'm good with defining the term as when the embryo can survive independent of the hpost

 

You said it when you said 'I can accept the heartbeat opinion'. And you use 'extermination' to describe abortion, so using your own words, you can accept extermination up to around 6 weeks.

 

Do you recall people using the phrase “follow the science” as a response to people opposing lockdowns?

Do you recall Fauci saying “I am the science?”

And does it not logically follow that if you do not follow the science, you are “anti-science?”

And aren’t people who are anti-science conspiracy theorists?

 

That’s great but there is no restrictive abortion law that I know of that accommodates the issues I’ve outlined. It just doesn’t work that way. Plus there are other issues with similar circumstances. At the end of the day seems to me you go with a European option, 13-15 weeks, but liberal exceptions and a fair amount of discretion. Ultimately shouldn’t be family and medical professionals be in the best position to sort it out.

Also, the whole counter narrative about late term abortions is mostly a red herring. People are not terminating late term fetuses, to any significant degree, for sheer convenience. These types of abortions are a small minority of abortions, and most of those involve serious health issues of the mother or fetus.

 

Must be why it’s harder than ever to buy a house here now and everyone is moving here, and why The Republican Party of Florida just clocked every Democrat up and down the ballot.