Covid-19: Treatments, Cures, and Vaccines

Not sure I understand the distinction. Both are administered AFTER you catch covid. Both are administered via IV to those who are covid positive. Unlike the vaccine which is administered to all.

It’s nice for a Texas Governor to go get it even if they have no symptoms. But the vast, vast majority of people aren’t going to hook themselves up to an IV if they have no symptoms. The thought of an anti-vaxxer hooking themselves to an IV seems bonkers to me.

The primary benefit is it allows hospitals to treat the “walking wounded” with it, since it’s a one and done instead of a 5 day course. So they don’t take an ICU bed for 5+ days (or worse if they later require intubation). Since it can be done outpatient, it lets them check some people out within hours without fully admitting them. But some % of those people will have to come back again (not sure what the rule is on a 2nd course of monoclonal antibodies, or if they move to other strategies, I’ll have to ask).

 

DeSantis launches COVID monoclonal antibody treatment in Fort Pierce

Regeneron is administered before you are hospitalized shortly after getting Covid.


"You've got to do this early, so if you are infected, by the time you get very, very ill and require hospitalization, it's probably too late for this to work," he said. "Clearly, the sooner you do it, the better you're going to be."

Multiple injections, not IV.

"The injections consist of two in the stomach and one in each arm, he said."

Will be interesting to see uses it. Most people wait until they get sick to get treatment. It has emergency approval. 4 shots. One would think if you are scared of vaccine then wouldn't do this.

But who knows maybe some will perceive this as a "Republican" treatment and be open to it.

 

Interesting.

There is definitely an IV infusion of monoclonal antibodies that has been more commonly added to the mix recently. That’s what the hospitals around here are doing for outpatient treatments... IV infusion. Maybe I misunderstood and that’s not Regeneron? Or maybe Regeneron has multiple delivery systems? I’ll try to get clarification.

4 shots certainly sounds better than an IV, but yeah... the vaccine is 2 shots so it’s still...odd.

 

Regeneron monoclonal antibodies are exciting for the vaxxed and unvaxxed.

 

Got clarification, and indeed it is the Regeneron being administered via IV. However subcutaneous injection is allowed by the EUA “where IV is not available”, but the IV is the default and preferred method. The injection is allowed in the language only if IV not available. A hospital or infusion clinic would likely stick to the IV method because this is what they do. Maybe some other pop up sites would have to go with injections, due to lack of ability to administer IV’s.

Wonder if there is a belief it’s efficacy is higher that way? It would make sense to think if you run an IV line that is a more direct and effective way of treating a patient vs injecting into fatty tissues and waiting for an immune response. Vaccines work that way, but with vaccines you can afford to wait days or weeks for that immune response. With a therapeutic you need fast results and can’t necessarily afford to wait.

 

Also, and not to be an a-hole, but the Regeneron treatment authorized in the US under the EUA is a Polyclonal Antibody treatment. Mass media seems to really struggle with the details of science and that is creating HUGE problems in helping people understand how one thing can work, while the other (that the media calls by the same name) does not work.

In the case of the authorized Regeneron treatment, there are two antibodies in the cocktail. But, those two synthetic antibodies are heterogenous, or cloned from multiple different types of B-cells and pieced together. This has provided enough breadth in how the different antibodies block the receptor binding domain that no variant has escaped treatment. This is also what makes me laugh my ass off when idiots are screaming about not taking the "made up" vaccine because it is "not natural", yet they are more than willing to be injected with essentially a Frankenstein Lab molecule (actually two of them) without question or thought!!

In contrast, the two early Eli Lilly true monoclonal antibodies were pulled from EUA because each one was cloned from a single, specific B-cell, and as the virus continued to evolve, the particular antibody selected for cloning in those two drugs was no longer highly effective in blocking the RBD of the "Spike".

Yes, I realize I sound like a douche, and I do apologize. I am also the furthest thing in the world from an expert on this subject. However, details matter in science and engineering. It really grates on me when I cannot find specific details in my work, or in the information about say, SARS-CoV-2 treatments so I can understand better what does and does not make sense. Looking at the "Frankenstein" antibodies from Regeneron mapped out in a paper and seeing how they are constructed and how they target the spike RBD helps me to understand their effectiveness. No, I do not grasp all of the details and probably regurgitate 50% of what I read and hear incorrectly, but it is the best I can do without getting another degree in microbiology. It is also why I am such a strong proponent of the mRNA vaccines.....less of a proponent of any adenovirus vectored vaccine, and really do not trust attenuated virus vaccines manufactured is East Asian countries.

 

It’s not being an a-hole at all to add what you know or to make corrections. The average person probably shouldn’t get lost in the weeds with this stuff in the first place, since there is no foundational knowledge!

I don’t know anything about how these work (biologically), I just sought clarification (from a family member) about how they were delivering them... and in their case it’s IV, and the reason was “that’s what the EUA language authorizes”. The top level decision process among the doctors and hospital CMO was as simple as that. IV is the preferred method, injection is the alternate “if IV not available”. Frankly, even for medical professionals and physicians that’s as good as it’s going to get unless actually involved in research or drug development.

Agree with all your points.

 

But...aren't they "expiremental"?

 

Johnson & Johnson reported data today that showed that a booster shot 6 months after the original produced an 9x increase in the antibody levels vs what was observed after 28 days following the first shot.

An interesting side note was the explanation that the particular antibody that the J&J vaccine generates is not a neutralizing antibody, but rather a binding antibody. These antibodies bind to foreign particles and then signals the adaptive part of the immune system to a) come destroy it and b) learn what it is and if it invades again, destroy it (gross over simplification).

Johnson & Johnson Announces Data to Support Boosting its Single-Shot COVID-19 Vaccine | Johnson & Johnson

 

Interesting. Thanks for this.

I can't find the article, but I watched a vid interview where the doc had said that if a booster is needed, it will likely be the only one. I don't know the science of why this is and can't find the video to provide more specifics, but I was surprised by that comment.

 

No one likes a know-it-all.

Except me of course.

 

I appreciate all of your posts on this. I learn as much or more from your posts than I do everywhere else.

 

Well booster shots were going to be inevitable as new variants surface. The world is watching Israel because they are the only country that has all of their adult population fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine. And they were first to do it. So 514 people are currently hospitalized with 59% of them fully vaccinated (meaning the other 41% are mostly under 18). They are seeing a 5 fold increase in cases in vaccinated people getting Covid and also a rise in the number of them getting the severe form. Israel's population has been vaccinated for 6-8 months. So what they are seeing we will eventually see around the Christmas holidays.

 

Looks like I may be administering regeneron soon. In the process to work at a site in either duval or orange county. Not sure which one yet. I was told IV administration but I have friends who do it already and say they are doing injections. Guess I'll find out soon enough

 

Interesting sidenote from this story is that the FDA has been reviewing the EUA for this drug since May. I wonder what the hold up is or if it was simply a lack of sufficient distribution and this agreement can help clear the way??

NRx Pharmaceuticals to Work with Cardinal Health to Ensure Efficient Distribution of Potential Therapies

 

Another Chinese company hitting the market with a Covid-19 vaccine. Zhifei Biological reported 81% efficacy in their phase 3 trials, though the numbers dropped a little bit to 77% against the Delta variant. This vaccine is similar to the Novavax and is based on a synthetic protein molecule. The full data set has not been released yet for public review, but if the numbers hold up, I believe this becomes the most successful Chinese vaccine product to date.

China's Zhifei says unit's COVID shot shows 81.76% efficacy in late-stage trial

 

Chinese vaccine? Walmart will be on it like a hobo on a hotdog...

 

On a serious note (though I rated your post funny), this is not the standard "cheap and easy to make" vaccine like their earlier attenuated virus vaccine. It will be interesting to see if they can sell this to East Europe, Africa and some of the other countries of SE Asia.

 

I wonder what the hold up is on Novavax and Astra Zeneca in the US

 

AZ is not going to apply for authorization in the US until they have Version 2.

Novavax claims that they will apply for US authorization by the end of 2021, but small study in India with the Delta variant showed lower efficacy than against the initial strain and I don't know if that affected their US plans. However, they still moved ahead with authorization for India.