Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

I said 50-60k is a fair number. It's not made up data. Alternative facts LOL. You mean charts showing masks don't eradicate Covid like some say? Or showing REAL death reports showing covid on there? Yeah, that's crazy all right.

 

My father's death certificate lists multisystem failure as his main cause of death with the underlying condition that caused the multisystem failure on line b. Am I lying if I say that he died of the disease? Almost nobody would claim that. But here we are.

 

In fairness Exiled doesn't spend a lot of time ranting around here. I think it is just a large gulf between POV's here and it may be years before we really know the truth about numbers.

 

Implicitly equating numbers collected from the standard death reporting procedures that we have used for deaths for all forms for decades with some guy making up estimates that sound better is the problem.

 

First, So sorry for your loss and anyone else hurt by this disease.
Second, I almost wonder if this should open the door to two categories.

Perhaps we should have a number where Covid is the direct cause and a second stating where covid is a secondary cause. Perhaps lumping them together is not the best way to get the truth out. I feel that this issue has driven a wedge between otherwise smart people in our country. It has caused distrust.

I don't know. Just a thought.

 

Really, and those reported deaths were off 20-30% before Covid and now all of a sudden we think it will improve? Yeah. Keep playing politics while the grown ups use logic and reason. Can't think of another reason why you blindly believe the reported numbers like they are gospel.

 

Nope. I'm ignoring people who are trolling or aren't able to have a mature conversation.

 

That's a lot of effort to placate bad faith actors. Pass.

 

I may have quoted the wrong post. Not sure. But what I was responding to was assertions on over counting COVID cases because they are really something else (heart disease, cancer, etc).

There may be over counting in some cases. Clearly there is under counting going on as well.

Excess deaths in the USA are a good deal higher than the COVID death numbers even though there are fewer traffic related fatalities than normal.

 

Absolutely. As well as having a huge increase in Alzheimer's and dementia deaths as well as suicide and drug and alcohol deaths from depression are up. I guess you forgot to mention those...

 

As a note @tilly, this is why people think he is trolling and are blocking him.

 

Trump: Coronavirus “Affects Virtually Nobody” (Other Than the 200,000 It Has Killed)

 

Here's you making up crap again. Oops. I posted the link showing 20-30% of death certificates were wrong before covid. And you are defending that LOL. Sounds like you are the troll. You won't take charts showing your BS peer reviewed studies are full of crap. Not my problem.

 

You recognize that he's basing his arguments off of fantasy numbers, but then call me out and say, "he's just fighting data with data."? You see the issue with that, don't you?

Yes, it is hard to wrap our minds around 200K dead and counting. It's horrific, heartbreaking, tragic, etc. Being sad doesn't change reality.

 

Exhibit B, @tilly.

BTW, for those that are interested, people should never equate a 20-30% random error with a claim of an over 70% systematic error. The argument is that because sometimes doctors list a wrong cause mostly due to mistakes and/or laziness, they must be systematically claiming the wrong cause of death for a purpose is absurd on its face.

Trying to lower the random error rate seems like a good cause. It just has nothing to do with our covid death rates, since it means that errors would also likely cause Covid deaths not to be listed as Covid deaths. There is no evidence in that of systematic errors.

 

In the case of this conversation some of his "data" is not data. It is assumptions and speculation.

 

Did you know that every time Nicholas Cage makes a film more people drown in swimming pools? It's true!

Making up stuff is fun.

 

They should all be recognized. Fair point.

Do we have more excess deaths related to suicide, drug abuse and Alzheimers than we have reduction in traffic fatalities?

Regardless, the primary factor in excess deaths here is still the pandemic. A more effective and much more timely response to it would have reduced all of those sources of death.

 

1. Wasn't intending to "call you out" at all.
2. We don't really know what the reality is. That is the point. It is OK to admit that and STILL recognize the terrible fight we are up against here.

 

But the actual graphs that he has shown are real data. Some are glossing over that as well.