Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Yeah, just like the other NYT article. Seems like a pattern...

 

phil already mentioned it, but there is no data backing up any significant increase in deaths related to lack of access to hospitals.

I'll grant there is probably some of that, but the primary factor in death rates here is very clearly the pandemic.

 

You didn't read or understand the article if that is your take away.

 

Read both. And they have no idea why the increase in deaths. They are guessing. But to think there isn't any correlation is just playing politics. Sad.

 

Thanks for your earlier post Oak about the real death statistics.

I am fearful that with schools opening and cold and flu coming the US will be hit with even higher rates of infection and death.

The numbers could be truly staggering by spring 2021.

 

Why Doctors Are Worried About How COVID-19 Is Affecting Cancer

Why most Covid-19 deaths won’t be from the virus

'60,000 cancer patients may die': Oncologist on the coronavirus dilemma | ITV News

Just a few articles on the issues of dealing with Covid. Like I said, for any article to not bring up the possibility, is flat out ignorant or lying.

 

The NYT article showing excess deaths are much higher than the official covid count? No, that one had a lot of data in it.

Which NYT article were you thinking of?

 

Yes, we could have a terrible global famine where 300,000 people starve to death each day. But I'm guessing that if we start approaching those numbers we would change course.

Just like we didn't have 2 million people die in the US because we didn't go down the path that led to that, we don't have 300,000 people starving to death each day.

It is important to recognize that we make the future. Accepting it as having already happened doesn't accomplish anything worthwhile.

 

Some great examples here on why we should be taking the virus more seriously so that we can return to normal quicker. Thanks for posting these.

 

It had good data in there for sure, but the headline of "The True Coronavirus Toll in the US has already surpassed 200k" sure makes it sound like they are saying we are underreporting Covid deaths.

 

Yes, if there is a six month lockdown, bad things will happen. It doesn't take 6 months of lockdown to stop the virus. It only takes 3-6 weeks. Their foundational assumption is flawed, the 60,000 number is a scare tactic.

The lead doctor on the model providing the 60,000 says that for a month of lockdown (closer to what has been happening in the real world), the number of excess cancer deaths would be very little, about 100 or 200 excess deaths.

 

That is because we are.

 

Disagree. Think we are close to the numbers but we will never know for sure. Anyone claiming 100% that we are either over or under reporting as an agenda.

 

Once again, you have literally no idea what you are talking about.

They are talking about diagnosis. Not people that have died of cancer in the past 6 months. Oncology treatments have not stopped during the pandemic. Even if you are in the hospital ICU with Covid, isolated for Covid, you STILL receive chemotherapy or whatever else you need - assuming your body is strong enough to handle it.

What they are talking about here is people who may not be getting diagnosed - because they are afraid to go do their normal checkups. In the future, many such people may have missed a window for "early diagnosis", and will have worse clinical outcomes because of it. This is absolutely going to be an issue, eventually it could lead to 60,000 more cancer deaths over the long term, as well as other diseases that are not being screened but may include risk of death (heart disease, diabetes, etc). But it's not yet reflected in our numbers because these are people who would have been just diagnosed during the pandemic, not people who have already died. Once the pandemic is over, in subsequent years, we will probably still see "excess deaths", but it will be because of these issues not because of COVID itself. Right now, the vast majority of excess deaths are COVID, especially all those classified as "unknown pnemonia" or "respiratory failure". Unless there is some mystery 2nd pandemic nobody knows about, almost all of the accute excess deaths are COVID.

 

Ignorance is alive and well I see. You have no idea what you are talking about, but that never stopped you before.

 

Go ahead and pick apart something I actually said. Prove me wrong. You notably failed to do so with your reply.

 

The incoherent drivel? The whole thing is bs. You are making crap up. Period. But good effort. Not working with me. Maybe someone else will believe it.

As Coronavirus Strains Hospitals, Cancer Patients Face Treatment Delays, Uncertainty

I'm sure this isn't happening all over...

 

For anyone that needs medical treatment, nothing has stopped. My mother is in her late 70s, has Crohn's disease, and requires some sort of transfusion procedure every 6-8 weeks. Used to hate them, but now looks forward to them, because it's one of the few times she gets out of the house! And every precaution is taken. Only my father is allowed into the clinic with her, there's an entrance that only those with appointment use, everyone wears masks, and my mother gets a face shield when she enters.

As for the excess deaths, if a known decedent had cancer or a heart condition, it would be noted on the death certificate. And it would be counted in with those numbers. If the decedent had a condition that was not known, it's unlikely that any sort of treatment in the last five months would have made a significant difference. Cancer and heart disease can, but rarely kills this quickly. The tens of thousands of extra deaths cannot be all attributed to killer diseases that can often take several months, if not years before taking a life. Especially when you consider that traffic accidents is a top 5 cause of death, and those numbers have decreased this year due to less miles driven per person.

Will there be a rise in late diagnosis of things like heart disease and cancer because of COVID? Unfortunately, yes. And later diagnosis does lead to a worse prognosis in many cases. But look at the pure numbers, COVID would be officially #4 on this list, and closing fast in on #3. And this while the country took extraordinary measure to slow the virus down.

Trying to weigh everything out, COVID has already caused more deaths than what a 10% rise in both cancer and heart disease deaths would equate to. And again, all COVID deaths occurred within a 6 month period, whereas some of the heart and cancer patients have lived years with their respective conditions. In the grim reality of attempting to save the most lives possible, the metrics say COVID is the bigger threat at this point.

 

"People with cancer are among those who are at high risk of complications if infected with the new coronavirus. It's estimated 1.8 million people will be diagnosed with cancer in the U.S this year. More than 600,000 people are receiving chemotherapy."

Another great article showing why we need to treat the virus more seriously. Maybe wear masks, elect a president who isn't a moron.....

Appreciate you posting this.

 

You have posted no statistical data wrt deaths caused by delayed access to health care.

The fact remains that known COVID deaths are now over 167K, and three weeks ago, total excess deaths were over 200K, in spite of substantially decreased deaths due to vehicle accidents.

There is no evidence that delayed access to certain types of health care is a factor in that delta.

I think it is reasonable to expect that in the longer term there will be adverse impacts caused by these delays.

That seriously sucks. Tough trade offs. And I doubt we've made them all correctly.

But there's only one party involved in all this who is intentionally misinforming the public and exacerbating the problems. He sits in the White House... when he isn't spraying uncounted "foot wedges" around his golf courses on the taxpayer dime.