Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Judges Were Told to ‘Remove’ CDC Coronavirus Warning Posters from Immigration Courts

 

This is what hysteria looks like.

 

Didn't see this anywhere just wanted too see what thoughts were on the talk that the US GOV may need to give assistance to sectors hit hard by the Covid19.
This includes Cruise lines, Airlines, Oil producers, travel associated companies.

The Gov bailed out the autos and the banks in 2008, do they need to help these other industries now?

 

Nope. Definitely not there yet. Maybe if the airlines are going under there is an argument for stability (didn’t they do something after 9/11 too?). But hotels? Cruises? Can’t imagine a scenario the govt should be propping those industries up in any way or under any circumstance. They are purely leisure/non critical. The free market will work perfectly for those guys even through a bankruptcy process if necessary.

 

Not arguing for by any means, but in the case of cruise there may be a huge ripple effect with the CDC man saying don't go on cruises (Paraphrasing). From what I understand they run a ton of debt and if the debts are not paid there may also be ripple effect in the credit markets. It's a bit more detailed than that.

 

Have an Alaskan cruise booked for this summer that I'm likely to cancel. Glad I will only lose the $50. OTOH if we wait, maybe get a deeply discounted cruise.

 

It’s not often that we agree but you are spot on this one.

 

Funny, I think natural disaster should be the only reason an industry should be supported by the government. Banks failed because of greed and bad decision making. They shouldn’t have gotten a dime.

 

I would definitely try to negotiate that when you contact them to cancel. At this point they have to already be seeing the impact from recent cancels and I’m sure their 2nd quarter bookings look horrific. My guess is they will deal with you. Better to get 50-60% from a sure thing than to let you walk. The way the media is playing this thing they are weeks away at least from getting the phones ringing and the website hits.

 

isn't that socialism?

 

Well good thing that the guy proposing those bailouts will have money from them flow directly into his pocket, given his ownership of hotels. Makes the process look totally legit.

 

The problem with the banks was systemic risk. The govt had no problem letting Lehman and Bear Stearns go under, but when it looked like basically *ALL* banks could go under it was a different issue altogether. The govt has to back up accounts with FDIC insurance, but if you get a bunch of major failures you are talking many trillions of dollars that the FDIC would have to cover, but that type of money just isn’t there. Then you’d have SIPC losses on top of that. In effect a total banking collapse would be a total collapse and default of the U.S. That is why the govt had to stop the collapse of the banks, to prevent a total failure of the U.S. economic system.

Autos were purely optional, but at that time with mass layoffs it was argued you didn’t want to effectively lose a domestic industry, which while not the same as banking, did have some systemic risk to parts suppliers and such. It also would have been a bad look to save the banks, but let the autos go under when their failure was at least exacerbated by the banking f-ups. Hotel and leisure is a totally different scenario from industrial/manufacturing, and this is also not the Great Recession (yet).

 

If you're referring to Trump I hadn't seen him comment on these things at all. (Only low rates, which is wrong at this time).

It was from talking heads on CNBC this am. Perhaps this is what they were referring to...

The tax deferrals for the travel industry are being considered as airlines cut back on routes and warn about declining ticket sales. Hotel chains are struggling with vacancies in Asia and are bracing for similar waves in the United States. Business travel is falling, and trade shows, music festivals and conventions are being canceled from San Francisco to Chicago to Austin to Miami. Families and college students are reconsidering spring break excursions and distant summer plans

Other countries have already enacted tax relief for their hardest-hit industries. On Sunday, Italy announced a tax credit for any company that has seen revenue decline by more than a quarter. That is on top of Italy’s announcement last month that companies and individuals in areas affected by the “epidemiological emergency” would be granted an extension on spring tax filings.

It’s not clear how U.S. relief would be administered or whether President Trump’s own hotels could be beneficiaries. Administration officials also disagree on the extent to which some of these measures could be undertaken without Congress.

On Friday, White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow confirmed that the administration is considering “timely and targeted” federal interventions to help workers, businesses and industries most vulnerable economically to the outbreak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...urt-by-coronavirus-outbreak-top-adviser-says/

 

They should not be bailed out, but I fully expect they will be. Because our govt continues to choose winners and losers in the... checks notes..... free market...

 

Does anyone think the Pubs in Congress would have given Obama stimulus and a temporary tax cut if this happened in 2012 while he was running for election? Be honest...

 

Not only that but people can carry the disease and show no symptoms meaning people may be transmitting it within the quarantine so it may not actually be extinguished at the end of the quarantine.

 

Fox's coverage: Ebola vs. Coronavirus

 

Sorry, but you can't just dismiss the Draconian measures because it doesn't fit into your narrative. China basically closed the entire Wuhan province to try and stop the spread of Corona. And while parts of China is densely population, Wuhan is a good 700 miles south of Beijing, which is the most densely populated area in China.

We have also seen worst case scenario of what happens when the virus hits an area concentrated with people must vulnerable. The nursing home in Kirkland, WA has a much higher death total per infected, because the most vulnerable are the elderly and those with immune disorders.

Italy has also issued a country-wide lockdown today, banning all non-essential travel in and out, and around the country. Why. Because as the link shows, before the quarantine in the Northern region, cases were growing exponentially. What can slow this down? Draconian measures such as a country-wide lockdown!

If you're under 60 and in relative good health, you personally don't have anything to worry about. But if you are in a high-risk group, have loved ones in the high-risk groups, or come in contact with anyone high-risk, then you should be at least be worried about how not to spread the disease.

 

Retail, travel, event companies, movies, Disney, beach destinations, cruises... it’s a total mess.

 

Yep, the administration is floating the bailouts, which is why they are discussing it. I find it highly unlikely that they are floating it without Trump's approval.

Regardless, no to airlines as they just had a massive couple of years in terms of business. I would lean no on oil exploration as I hate to stop the progress towards cleaner fuels and materials, but the nationalization of the industry in other countries makes me at least consider the merits of it from a competition standpoint. Absolute no on hotels, as those need to have a smaller footprint anyway. Finally, as to cruise ships, I would have leaned towards some sort of relief except for the fact that they have been registering ships in other countries for years. Re-register the ships and we could talk. Otherwise, they can ask Panama or Malta or whomever for their bailouts.