Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

He isn't evil. You don't need to drop down to this level.

 

My bad and I apologize if that was the case. Typing on the internet can make deciphering things difficult at times. And it came off as a shot at me. I apologize for taking it the wrong way if you were not saying I was self centered. Though you did again here. So sure feels like you are taking a shot at me with the self centered comments…

 

disagree. He’s projecting. Wasn’t willing to lift a finger at any point and is now desperate to blame anyone but himself.

 

I certainly am now, after you asked me to weigh in on the topic. But the comment you keep going back to wasn't directed at you and wasn't about you. I do believe you are self-centered and too prideful to learn from being wrong, but none of that was in the post you tried to make fit you.

 

Huh…”His prideful ignorance…” was not about me? “His” was not me?

 

Sure, but that wasn't what you quoted as being a shot at you. And it wasn't a shot at you, just pointing out that your posts here doesn't deserve you being called evil. I don't think you are evil. I think you sincerely believe the things you do and are trying your best to help others see the world as you do.

Evil would be understanding the data on how well the vaccines are performing, but still trying to get people not to take them.

 

yeah dude I’m not so sure.

 

One thing that you many not consider is this.
The covid vaccines while they had EUA, full safety data was not available, for many people that was an issue.

You may be correct that in general side effects for vaccines may be known sooner and there are few doses when compared to other medications.
To the average person this is a still a big issue.

I saw the general attitude toward people who did not want to rush in and get the vaccines for this reason.
Just because that line of thinking did not jive with some should not have been met with such disdain.

I saw it here on this board daily and in the media. The way people were portrayed as anti science nobs only furthered the mistrust and fear.

The fact that NI now seems to be as good if not better than Mrna x2 only reinforces the idea that it was rammed down people’s throats with fear and strong armed tactics.

 

Because you know what is in his heart and mind.

Wow

 

I’m not going to completely dismiss this, but I mostly do because the worry about EUA approval only was mostly only a Republican issue. To me it shows that was deeper than just a reservation about medical issues.

The resentment towards them was primarily because it was perceived as a political stance. At the time, everyone wanted to get past Covid, but the perception at the time was given that those mostly Republican vaccine skeptics, we would all have to suffer Covid to a greater and longer extent. Many more people would die due to antivaxxers desire to express a political signal.

In hindsight, it wasn’t nearly that simple, as variants and fast incubation made vaccines only partially effective against infection and spread.

I’m not sure what natural immunity has to do with anything. Whether you had NI or not you were better off with he shots. Having said that, even at that time, for expediency I always said we would be better off giving an exemption for NI, to the extent it could be reasonably tested and documented. Some fights just aren’t worth fighting.

 

Trouble is the variants didn’t come from the US where all those Pub vaccine skeptics reside. So they wouldn’t be responsible for variants.

I had many many patients that were hesitant. Although I don’t have their voting history I doubt they were all Pubs ( basing that on the area I live).
Even more now refuse to get any more boosters. Even some of the most ardent mask wearers form 2 years ago are done with boosters.

 

Not sure what your point is here. That isn’t what I was saying. I was not asserting our lack of vaccination lead to variants. As you indicate more variants came from outside the US.

My point re the variants is that early on, most everybody had a misunderstanding of how the vaccine worked, and hadn’t yet seen the impact of variants. The incorrect assumption was that these vaccines would work like other vaccines, wipe out infections and cause herd immunity. Given those (incorrect) assumptions, it was further assumed the faster everyone was vaccinated the faster we wipe out Covid. So failure to get vaccinated lead to a lot of resentment.

My point was the common understanding of the disease and the vaccination was wrong. Because of variants and its fast incubating nature, the vaccine was never going to wipe out Covid. For that matter neither was naturally immunity.

The fact is that a much greater percent of republicans failed to get vaccinated than democrats. There was some initial hesitation among minority communities but eventually they got on board, whereas many republicans became more intransigent on the issue.

While almost anybody will benefit from a booster, the impact is more marginal since almost everyone has at least some protection between prior vaccination and natural immunity. At the same time, I’m sure much of the hesitation out there is due to disinformation. Unless you study the stuff, it is hard to ignore the noise.

 

Or with reckless disregard as to how well they are performing.

 

Looks like a few folks in here should probably unwatch this thread.

 

Based on science/medicine and the history of bringing drugs to market along with the risk benefit to young people…These shots would have been pulled from young adults a couple of months in and never emergency authorized for kids.

When you add the reality we have continued to ignore science to push these shots…I do think there is a small group in leadership that are absolutely evil. For goodness sakes. Novak Djokovic still can’t come to the United States. While that is not evil in itself. It is stupid and part of defining the people who are evil as they continue to make decisions that ignore common sense, ignore basic medicine/science and hold important positions that offer guidance for serious issues. The same people ignored natural immunity.

 

You should already know that these "debates" with Liberals are just their attempt to invent a strawman argument or some other logical fallacy and then they'll argue their own made up point as if you said it.

 

Lift a finger about what?

I at the beginning supported high risk groups taking the shot. It is all over this thread at the time. I even supported giving them to those who had natural immunity if they wanted them (though it made no sense as to why to me). And the science has shown that as correct. But at the beginning I never said one was wrong to take them if they had natural immunity. As time has gone on I absolutely do not think these shots should be given anymore. Seroprevalence has relocated them unnecessary for all groups at this point. The focus should be on therapeutics. It should have been stronger on therapeutics from the beginning. As Iboy points out…we were never going to get herd immunity. They knew this. Well they sold everyone at the beginning the shots actually prevent you from getting Covid but they knew how fast this disease works.

My position has absolutely evolved on the issue. Now masks…they never worked and we knew that before the pandemic.

 

@duggers_dad - When the poster who made the hyperbolic list of vaccines "all people need" clarified it as sarcasm you did indeed apologize for missing the sarcasm intended in the post.

I commented, "I'm amused you did not recognize the sarcasm in his post, apparently preferring to take it at face value without considering the alternative."

Which prompted you to post,

Yes, you did apologize for missing the sarcasm in the list of vaccinations "all people need." Then adding..

But I think you are still missing the point of my post commenting on your apparent face value acceptance of the hyperbolic list. It was so over the top, more so with its inclusion of anthrax and yellow fever, with your keen mind it should have been obvious to you it was posted with irony. But you missed that, and in failing to recognize the dubious listing of these vaccinations as vaccinations ''all people need'' you failed to discern the the intent of the post. What concerns me is the evidence of confirmation bias in this instance blinded or hindered your ability to discern the intentional falsity in the list. Why did you fail to discern the sarcasm? Was it because it confirmed some preconceived bias you have against 'people' you encounter "on this sub forum," was not what you expected or anticipated, therefore justifying your decision to dismiss it without further consideration? What does this say about your judgment, your ability to discern truth from hyperbole and falsity? From fanciful flights of fantasy? [could not resist that one]

In short, in your failure to discern the sarcasm in the listing was an equal failure to discern the intention. And this failure is why I commented earlier.

It leads me to think once you have made up your mind you cease inquiry and in your close minded state fail to give further consideration to all available information on a topic if it runs counter to what you have concluded. Be it viruses, vaccinations, Ukraine, or any other controversial topic. And this shortcoming is why I commented in that earlier post. Though are certainly free to label it "piling on" if you wish.

 

Did I say that?

Wow