Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Pretty sure omicron was January 2022 not Jan 2021

 

Yeah, I'll go with most of Europe who aren't playing politics. They don't recommend the vaccine to kids. Here are the examples. That data you are posting is wrong. I've posted ad nauseum of the increase risk for kids regarding myocarditis from the vaccine is much higher than from covid itself.

England Refuses to Offer COVID Shots to Kids Under 12, While US Cities Mandate Them. Who’s Right? | Jon Miltimore

Sweden decides against recommending COVID vaccines for kids aged 5-11


Sweden decides against recommending COVID vaccines for kids aged 5-11

 

Not sure that your links which focused on children under the age of 12 and my link which focused on teens and young adults are directly comparable although I would agree that the vaccination of children is not critical whether or not is a good idea is a somewhat different question. In January 2022 Sweden decided against recommending the vaccination for children under the age of 12; in September 2022 the UK decided that the vaccination should be recommended for children under the age of 12 only if they are considered high risk.

 

Omicron was late 2021…

 

Should have been January 2022, corrected the typo.

Omicron was identified in November of 2021 in South Africa and probably became the dominant strain in early 2022.

 

It is flat evil that these shots were ever recommended to kids. People need to be held accountable. And all those that were duped into giving their child one of these shots should be infuriated. The risk benefit never warranted the shot. And worse their safety never met the standards to give it.

 

Almost all countries promote giving the shot to all 12 and older. For those 5-12, there is debate. And while the risks from COVID are low, the job lowers risk even further for severe COVID outcomes, while not raising the risk significantly for anything else severe. This goes for all kids under 18. Which is why the CDC promotes the shot for all kids. Under 12, other countries deem the risk of infection for healthy kids so low, they don't think the benefit is enough.

Oh, and @gator95, going to admit your loss and my timeline was correct. Around Feb 2021, the data, mostly coming out of Manaus, was showing vaccine was better than NI. By June 2021, new data, including what you linked from Israel, differed, showing NI was better. Further studies confirmed the Israel study, and by around Sept 2021, serious flaws in the Manaus data showing it significantly overestimated the portion of the population that had NI had been reported. Since then, the accepted science has been NI is better than vaccine; and hybrid, which requires vaccination, is best.

That's not revisionist history. That's following the data and changing the story as new data becomes available. Which is what people who follow the scientific method do.

 

I think the point that he is trying to make is that for quite a long time many who suggested NI would be better based of what we know about immune response from natural infections were literally laughed at at best or called out as MAGA idiots. There was little fair minded discussion.

 

Seems to me that the derision for the NI believers was that the nasty, pesky acquisition of NI with covid was taxing the medical system and presented significant risks. As the NI crowd was ardently antivax, the public good was seen to be diminished .

 

Afraid of catching and being killed by a computer printout.

 

The NI thing coming up once again. As with most things, everything tends to fall along the lines of party. It’s a fairly complicated discussion, and you have to have the context to evaluate its relevance. It is true that some on the left and even public health have gone out of their way to make natural immunity seem inferior, even to the point of issuing ridiculous studies that compare vaccines a couple of weeks after vaccination at peak antibody response vs natural immunity up to 6 months prior. In most cases natural immunity is probably somewhat more robust, but it also appears that NI can be more variable.

You can argue that NI has some application on timing of vaccines, boosters etc. But mostly it is an irrelevant argument. The purpose of the vaccine is to avoid illness, and especially avoid severe illness. The notion that you would want to get sick to prevent you from getting sick is kind of silly. Also in most cases you are almost always better off getting a vax, whether you have NI or not. The main reason for these NI proponents is their assumption that vaccination is dangerous and should be avoided as much as possible.

I blocked G95 a long time ago because he is a two trick pony - the superiority of NI and the supposed vaccine dangers to male teens and young adults. That was 90% of his posting. While there is a sliver of validity into those positions, he was dogmatic in his exaggeration of them and lack of context so I really had nothing left to learn from him. His posts just clutter up more informative posts.

 

One other point re NI, is among Republicans you have some that are outright vaccine skeptics and conspiracists. Then you probably have more that aren’t anti vax per se, but they are leaning in heavily about the vax doesn’t work because it doesn’t stop infection, blah blah (which can be easily explained).

Some of these same people have a big hard on for natural immunity. But you are seeing the same thing with NI. There are many cases of reinfection. NI does not give you long term protection against infection. Even it’s short / medium term protection against infection is limited, especially with variants. The same thing you are seeing with vaccines.

So if they believe NI is inherently better, but NI “isn’t working” either to stop all or most infection, why are they holding vaccines to a higher and likely impossible standard?

 

Because they are selfish blowhards who are still melting down years later about their kids field trip getting cancelled. Getting a vaccine requires making an effort that isn’t just about themselves.

Covid showed us that when push comes to shove, some people are wholly unwilling to modify their behavior in any way shape or form to help the greater good.

 

Initially most people were generally supportive of lockdowns and protective measures. But it became politicized pretty quickly because such measures hurt the economy which optically hurt Trump, and he said as much out loud, and quickly after that everything fell along partisan lines. Only after that did people become concerned with their lack of personal freedoms.

 

To your point I recently read and posted that 4% of Covid suffered had some sort of associated resulting heart condition, including myocarditis, POTS, tachycardias, arrhythmia, heart attack, etc. When you consider most people will eventually get Covid that is a big number- approx 12 million give or take.

 

The whole idea of NI is inherently flawed to begin with because you actually have to get Covid to acquire it. Sure, the odds are in your favor that you won’t get deathly sick from acquiring Covid, especially if young and healthy, but it’s still a completely idiotic premise because why take a risk at all? This is a rhetorical question for our resident anti-vaxxers, I don’t expect an educated answer, lol.

 

Florida Surgeon General Warns Life-Threatening VAERS Reports up 4,400 Percent Since COVID-19 Vaccine Rollout (theepochtimes.com)

Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo is sounding the alarm about a 4,400 percent increase in life-threatening conditions reported in the state to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) since the 2021 rollout of the COVID-19 vaccines.

In a letter dated Feb. 15, Ladapo asks the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to “promote transparency in health care professionals to accurately communicate the risks these vaccines pose.”

VAERS, co-managed by the FDA and CDC, documents reports of injuries and conditions related to vaccines.

“In Florida alone, we saw a 1,700 percent increase in reports after the release of the COVID-19 vaccine, compared to an increase of 400 percent in vaccine administration for the same period,” Ladapo’s letter reads. “The reporting of life-threatening conditions increased 4,400 percent. ”

“Even the H1N1 vaccine did not trigger this type of response,” reads the letter.

And yet we still have a group claiming it's completely safe and a few of the ignorant ones still claiming were being selfish for not taking the worthless jab.

 

It is not complicated. No one says go get sick to get immunity. But when the risks of the disease are basically zero. And the shot being pushed does not not stop the disease. Yet is has clear safety signals. It should not be given. But hey. Take your shots and get Covid.

Based on your implication that people are going to just get sick to get natural immunity for protection. You and others would go get sick so you could get hybrid immunity. Even @AzCatFan understands how ridiculous your logic is here. But no one is saying go get sick.

 

Wow. You still remember that ridiculous story where my daughter and her peers could not go to DC because they had not taken the shot.

You must understand how stupid that policy was in DC to remember that. As I think this is the second time in a month you brought it up. I have not brought it up since the time frame it happened. Good to know you understand how dumb our public health officials were and are for that matter.

Now the scary thing is I think you would still harm your kids and grandkids with an unnecessary shot. A shot that should have never been authorized for kids. Even young healthy people. But propaganda is a powerful thing.

 

Context for the percentages helps.

Florida surgeon general, again questioning COVID vaccines, sends letter to CDC, FDA

Percentage increases do not alone provide an understanding of the magnitude of an event. According to the VAERS database, 14 life-threatening events following any vaccination (not just the coronavirus shots) were reported in Florida in 2020. In 2021, the number was 695, according to the database. In 2022, the number was 177. Nearly 42 million COVID-19 vaccine doses have been administered in Florida, according to the CDC.

Florida surgeon general cites database with unverified reports | wtsp.com

An actual report 10 Tampa Bay found in the database submitted by someone after receiving the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine claimed an adverse event was "turning green, super strength and rage attacks."

We're not talking large numbers here and it wouldn't all be surprising if people were submitting false reports given the fake body tremors videos that have been circulating.