Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

I mean that's literally the point I made and people get defensive. I literally said. "That's how science works".

 

That is about to change I am afraid.

 

NHL will shut down through the holiday (starting Wednesday) as 15% of the league is in protocol. 11 teams have shut down. They are now likely to back out of the Olympics to get those 3 weeks back for schedule purposes.

The NHL by the way only has ONE player unvaccinated.

 

Find me any expert that predicted the vaccines would initially give 90% + protection against infection and continue to provide that level of protection. You won't find any. What you are parroting is your own interpretation and lack of knowledge of how vaccines work. Nobody expected 90%+ efficacy in clinical trials vs.infection. That was an amazingly high number. But then the general public, and popular media to some extent came to expect that would last, and when antibody response fades, as it always does, these narratives of "the vaccine is leaky" and "they didn't expect this" started to crop up. But anybody who knew anything about vaccines (which did not include me at the time) knew this was inevitable for antibody response to infection. What was not known, and has held up better than expectations, is immunity against severe disease and death.

I understand when Q and G95 don't get this, even after its explained to them again and again. It is frustrating that you keep saying this.

 

One of the things Paul Offit said in the podcast quoted a few posts back is everyone has been focusing on infection. But antibodies wane, and what is most important is protection against hospitalization and death. If our goal is to stop infections with a disease that incubates in 3 days (omicron) or 4 days (Delta) we will be perpetually boosting, because antibodies always fade. However long term immunity against serious illness seems to last for quite some time, which is important.

Interestingly, he isn't yet convinced that the evidence is there to roll out boosters to everyone. Keeping everyone from getting infected is probably not a realistic goal. Preventing serious illness is a realistic goal. Whether boosters will reduce serious illness over the long term isn't exactly clear yet.

 

The Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective against infection from the wild type, short term. But infectious disease specialists knew this data could be rendered useless over time, and/or with the rise of new variants. It's why, even with a vaccine that requires only 2 shots originally, vaccine cards have space for four shot records.

A vaccine that allows a mild breakthrough case isn't a failure either. The J&J vaccine was never more than 67% effective from stopping an infection. But it was very effective at stopping cases from being serious. Some see this as a loss, but keeping people alive and out of the hospital is a win.

Last, the numbers speak for themselves. 800,000 dead, with COVID being the 3rd leading cause of death since March, 2020, and a top 10 cause of death in all age groups. Including children. The CDC has estimated over 150,000 deaths were preventable, and the U Minnesota states nearly all daily deaths today are preventable. But only if we vaccinate all whom are eligible.

 

Not sure the last time I stepped into this thread. Maybe sometime in 2020? This board never ceases to surprise me. I mean we’re almost two years into COVID and discussing vaccines yet people still don’t understand the basics?

 

As long as I'm perfectly heathy, have a very strong immune system and my natural immunity, I'm good. Thanks for your concern

 

It's a not a claim, were hearing more of the truth being reported each day of break-through cases, which have been happening from the start

 

White House won't deny COVID outbreak among '99% vaccinated' staff (wnd.com)

White House won't deny COVID outbreak among '99% vaccinated' staff
'We do expect there to be breakthrough cases'

Since then, the existence of "breakthrough" cases has been acknowledged. But now his chief spokeswoman, Jen Psaki, has been put in the awkward position of being unable to deny to reporters that there is a COVID-19 outbreak in the "99%" vaccinated White House.


"So, you're not going to say whether or not there's been a significant outbreak in the various different parts that I mentioned – NSC, State Department, Treasury?"

"Again, I point you to different agencies to give any additional information," Psaki said. "But I would just note that we do expect there to be breakthrough cases, as there will be across government."

Over the weekend, three fully vaccinated Democratic lawmakers who also had received a booster shot announced they had tested positive for COVID-19. Sens. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Cory Booker of New Jersey, and Rep. Jason Crow of Colorado all said they believed the mild symptoms they experienced were a result of being boosted.

 

Each and every one of them got it from an unvaccinated person…

 

This variant will hit everyone as long as we are open and getting around. A lot of people walking around who don’t know they are “infected.” That is the way a vaccine should work: the virus exists and we encounter it, but it doesn’t make us sick and we pass the infection. I hope your family recovers quickly and everyone is well soon.

 

Callous and cold. You are 35 and this is what you say? Classic right wing response. And, disregards the large number of younger people who got very sick, long term effects or died. This kind of garbage is why we are where we are today. Having to worry about the unvaccinated? No thanks. They paid their ticket and can take the ride, whatever it brings. I just feel bad for those who are exposed them. But the good news is that the vaccines allow the rest of us to have a 10+ times lower chance of severe disease, hospitalization or death. I am still waiting for someone spreading the kind of garbage falsehoods you and others are spreading to identify where we would be without the pre-vaccination mitigation measures or if the ignorant has gotten vaccinated given 800k plus deaths now and the current spread. And I don’t blame the messaging. I blame the stupid; you know who they are. Vaccinated people tell them the evils of the vaccine and they listen. And they dont learn from the unvaccinated dead talk show hosts or representatives who they listen to.

 

Early on the pandemic I specifically recall one of the top virologists saying due to the nature of coronaviruses, how quickly they mutate, etc, that we’d be lucky to have a 50% effective vaccine if it was possible at all. He also pointed out the average human gets infected with 3-4 different coronavirus per year and often doesn’t even know it. These things stuck with me, and set the “expectation” low for the vaccine.

The Omicron variant of C19 might bring even the mRNA vaccines down substantially to or below the predicted 50% against infection, but we can hope it still does the job against hospitalization or death. It has supposedly rendered some of the other vaccines in other parts of the world almost totally useless. I don’t recall a single person “predicting” a 90%+ effective vaccine, or “predicting” any vaccine offers lifetime immunity. The 90%+ was based on the clinical trial period of those specific shots (Pfizer and Moderna… the J&J shot already had lower efficacy right the start). It compared the vaccinated group to unvaccinated group during a set period of time for the trial and saw a 90% difference between them. The 90% immunity was observable in the real world through hospitalizations and deaths in the U.S., with basically every hospital reporting far more unvaccinated patients vs. vaccinated, including even through the delta wave.

 

The long term COVID patients and dead disagree with you. Sorry for the inconvenience. Then again, you still don’t answer the question if where we would be if it hadn’t been for the vaccines. Here is a hint: since the vaccines prevent hospitalizations and deaths by a facto of more than 10, multiply the hospitalized and dead in Florida since the vaccines came in line by 10 to get your number. That is a conservative figure because of the delay in getting people vaccinated. It would have been worse without mitigation in the Spring.

 

Oh I did the double dose vaccine thing when I was told it would work. Now it doesn't. In the words of the great GWB, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Fool me - you can't get fooled again. Perhaps they should have tested it enough to actually know if/how/how long the vaccine works as well as the side effects before telling us all it would allow the scared to come out of their homes. They had their chance with me and wasted that with lies.

Anyways, the real good news is that where I live we haven't had any restrictions and our governor as well as our mayor have told the president to stick his rules somewhere unmentionable. Life is and has been great here, good luck to you guys who are all quarantined, will lose businesses and jobs, miss out on seeing loved ones and friends, but ultimately have the same outcome as us non-terrified people.

 

That is why we need vaccine mandates. So folks like your ignorant and selfish grandparents don’t impose their self centered choices for everyone else. And, to be clear, if they get infected, they don’t deserve put compassion. Your last line says it: it isn’t about the larger responsibility to society and others. They is not on the equation in this post or any other of your post. We need society to protect the rest of us from this type of thinking. It is why the studies of the Trump response show hundreds of thousands of more deaths than would have occurred if he just told the truth.

 

Not really, it also impacts the unhealthy. It is a different virus with some similarity in who it impacts badly, but then again pretty much all viruses impact the old and unhealthy more than the young and healthy.

I'd expect a new virus to be more deadly than one we've been living with forever, especially when the one we've been living with has widely available and proven/tested vaccines and treatments. Once covid is around a bit longer and we have these things it will likely be no different than any other seasonal virus. Personally I accept the slightly higher risk to myself and if you don't you should quarantine until the world is safe enough for you.

 

People die man, that's life unfortunately. I'm not going to insulate myself inside my house and hide from the world because I could die. If you want to that is fine, I don't care. Life has and has always had risks, I accept that in order to enjoy life I will encounter risk. I've greatly enjoyed the last two years, attended some concerts, traveled across the country multiple times, moved from Colorado to Tennessee, had parties and gatherings, all surrounded by people who similarly feel that risk is worth it in order to actually enjoy their lives.

If you feel that a fairly small risk means you should forgo enjoying nearly 3% of your life (2 years, so far, divided by 75) be my guest, but don't ask others to do the same - especially those who are in the prime of our lives.

I have no responsibility to society and others except those I choose to have responsibility for. Society doesn't care about me either and that's just fine with me, I can take care of myself and family.