Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Just because it is the largest study, doesn't mean it's impeccable. If you did a study of current college students asking them who the best ever college football program is, and included The Ohio State, and 9 other smaller schools, the "largest study" would be of TOSU students. Think that might skew results a bit? The largest study out of Israel only looked at natural versus one vaccine, and the study participants are rather homogenous. If you had the read the link I included, it goes over all of this and explains that even while the largest study shows one thing, there is plenty of studies and evidence with contradictory results. And scientists on both sides who in the end, really aren't sure, because the science isn't settled.

Buy hey, keep thinking it's settled, and keep ignoring any and all data that doesn't align with your opinion. At least you are consistent, and you know what they say about that.

 

COVID Data Tracker

Lowest number of new hospitalizations in FL since the tracking began on 8/1/2020: 172 on 10/23 (previous low of 206 on 6/21/2021)

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

When you continue to ignore natural immunity and then try to make a point, it just makes me disregard it immediately. Sorry, but until you consider natural immunity as better than the vaccine by itself I find it useless to have a rational conversation with you.

 

Natural immunity is part of the equation. But it's more difficult to track down "to a science" because unlike the vaccine, there isn't a posted date, time, and which vaccine was given. With natural immunity, we don't have that tracking ability. And again, read the link and it presents, very well, both sides of the argument which is better, natural or vaccine. It's a comprehensive read, and someone with an open mind would likely read it and agree the science isn't settled. Too much conflicting results on peer reviewed studies to make any definitive statements. Sorry if you are too closed minded, or maybe scared to have your beliefs challenged, that you won't even open the link and read an article that presents both sides of the argument quite well.

 

You don't need any of that. All you need is an antibody test. Stop making this difficult. It's simple. You are the one being closed minded. You refuse to accept that natural immunity is vastly superior to just the vaccine. That tells me all i need to know about your "science". Go read the Israeli study again and get back to me when you jump on board. Otherwise there really isn't anything more to discuss with you. You are just making up crap when you don't include natural immunity. But have at it. Maybe 1-2 people still believe you on here.

 

We have treated maybe 20 people today in Jax. I don't see the regeneron clinics staying open much longer but who knows. Apparently it was like this before Delta spiked but who knows. Hard to justify the costs to staff these sites if less than 30 people a day are using them now.

For what it's worth, while desantis made headlines with these regeneron clinics most who come in now say they weren't aware of who could use them or that they even existed. There hasn't been much of a campaign to actually use the clinics prophylacticly in the event of exposure and most people I know didn't know that was an option.

 

I see that too, I literally had to message many local Docs that there was one in our area. They had zero clue, sad that they didn't take the time to stay updated or the Dept of Health didn't do a better job of getting the word out.

 

In my opinion the dept of health should be putting out a recurring info bulletin via news 13 or other outlets. Most who come through here are greatful we exist. An overwhelming majority are unvaccinated just as a bit of random info.

 

100%. Anywhere that does testing should let every person know where the nearest center is.
The 2000k infusion is way cheaper than the ICU admission

 

And the vaccine is cheapest of all.

 

I'm making up crap? Again, read the full BMJ piece. It has both sides of the argument as to which is better, natural or vaccine immunity. There is plenty of conflicting results and scientists on both sides. I hope that unlike you, these scientists are willing to look at the conflicting information and attempt to figure out why results aren't replicated between the studies.

I would hope you understand that using the scientific method, a hypothesis does not become a usable scientific theory until the results are replicable time and time again. Just looking at the results of one study, even if it's the largest, doesn't mean those results are definitive. Again, the Israeli study looked at just one vaccine, and tested a population that is homogeneous. Issues that again, the BMJ article addresses as to why even though the study was large, it isn't agreed to as fact by the overwhelming majority of scientists around the world. And again, the article presents plenty of facts and opinions of scientists who think vaccine immunity may be better in some cases.

Your refusal to even read material that conflicts your opinion is very telling. A good scientists always has an open mind, especially when results aren't what you would expect. You are not a good scientist. You have your mind made up, never waver even when presented with conflicting data, and when presented with conflicting data, you call it garbage and dismiss it without even looking at it. I'm not the one most people on this board don't take seriously.

 

As I stated well over a year ago that some news agencies reported that the Wuhan virus was benign, that is was only deadly to animals until the NIH helped to create a deadly version with the help of NIH scientists working in the Wuhan lab in China... gain of function was made possible with American scientists would in consort with the Chinese scientists in China.

CNN’s Pamela Brown Grills NIH Director On ‘Oversight Failure’ for Wuhan Research: ‘Why Should Americans Trust You?’

 

You are choosing to ignore natural immunity and want to vaccinate kids. No data supports either choice. But you keep thinking it does. Sorry that the largest study ever shows natural immunity is vastly superior to just the vaccine. I get that it ruins your argument. Tough luck.

 

Did you even read your link? Probably not, because if you did, you would have read this:

“You’re just now finding out U.S. tax dollars were being used to pay for this risky research in that Wuhan lab two years ago,” she said. “So the question is how can you know what this money is going toward? What kind of research this is going toward in places like the Wuhan lab if you’re just now finding this out from EcoHealth Alliance how the U.S.’ taxpayer dollars were being used?”

Collins led by agreeing “EcoHealth did violate the terms of their grant award.” He insisted, however, that their gain-of-function research was not the kind that requires “special high level oversight,” and it was “in no way connected” to the emergence of the Covid-19 virus. [emphasis added]
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The genetic code of COVID-19 has proven time and time again, that it did not come from any human based activity. A Maury Povich knows, DNA doesn't lie.

Meanwhile, the FDA Panel approved the vaccine for kids 5-11 today in a 19-0 vote with one abstentia. The FDA doesn't always follow panel recommendations, but is expected to do so in this case, meaning shots for kids will likely be coming before Thanksgiving.

 

I'm not ignoring natural immunity. I, along with a significant portion of the medical and scientific community, question what is best. We still don't know. And one study, even the largest, isn't always definitive. Part of accepting a scientific hypothesis is the experiment being repeatable with the same results. Can you explain why there are multiple studies that support the Israel experiment, but there are also multiple studies that show a completely different result? Neither can most scientists, which is why the matter isn't settled among the scientific community.

Size of a study doesn't mean it is infallible, and again, there are serious questions not about the results of the Israeli study, but whether or not it truly represents what is happening around the globe. The multiple of studies that contradict the Israeli findings further puts forth questions about what is best, and if you read the BMJ article, you would have a better understanding of why this science isn't settled. But the article actually presents both sides, including the side you disagree with very well, and gosh forbid you even consider, for one moment, reading something that you don't already agree with.

 

Nope. You don’t count natural immunity at all in your post that I called out. A simple “my bad” would suffice.

 

I didn't call out natural immunity because as you pointed out with your link, we can only estimate the numbers. in contrast, every vaccine in the US has been date stamped with which vaccine was used. Can anyone honestly say a place with 65% total vaccination and 15% with natural immunity is better or worse off than a place with 75% vaccination and only 5% natural? And how do we really know how accurate the natural immunity population truly is? We know exact vaccination numbers, but we may never know, down to the person, natural immunity numbers.

And unlike you, I understand the science isn't settled when it comes to efficacy of natural immunity. It's effective, yes, but just how effective compared to vaccines, and how long are still being debated. There may be people infected in March of 2020 who still have antibodies, and those infected this past July who are susceptible to reinfection. The only way to be sure? Get vaccinated. We know much better the efficacy and length of vaccines.

As for your claim we wasted vaccines on those with natural immunity, those with breakthrough cases who are dying are generally those 70 and older. And they were the first eligible for the vaccine in January/February. And by April, the vaccine was pretty much eligible to all over 18. That's a small window of vaccinating a small percentage of people with natural immunity over 55.

 

Look at this... different rules for the ruling class in Congress explains it all. It's time for some of us to buy this therapeutic. The same one that these Leftists in Congress are actively trying to deny the American people through agency policies levied by the FDA and the CDC.

 

Use a modicum of common sense. Do you really think that 200 members of Congress are all going to a Dr. in Milwaukee for prescriptions?

 

You literally don’t know what you are doing. I see that. Have fun making up numbers. Good luck with that. I’m done trying to have a rational conversation with someone who is this ignorant to natural immunity.