Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

I would agree with this completely. I also agree that, much like most other diseases, those who were infected and seroconverted are sufficiently protected for now. I do not accept that we know as fact that this protection is life long, but that is for a different debate.

That said, "vaccinating the world" is a very noble goal, but given the dogged anti-vaxx campaigns being waged world wide, I do not see this as a reasonable goal.

 

According to at least one paper, the unvaccinated will be contracting the disease about every 16 months on average.

(Note: this is a study of the evolution of other beta corona viruses, so while this is a peer reviewed and published paper, it is not a direct observational study)

DEFINE_ME

By the way, there is some data to suggest that the British were right in extending the period of time between shots. Getting a 3rd dose of the mRNA vaccines after 6 months is provoking a stronger antibody (and presumably T-cell) response. It is not clear if this will even need to be an annual shot like flu, let alone every 6 months, so not sure how you can state that as fact.

 

Interesting discussion of the somewhat maligned J&J shot as compared to the mRNA vaccines.

Because it does not work the same way, the J&J shot produced an order of magnitude lower neutralizing antibodies at the start. However, after 8 months, those levels remained largely unchanged and actually were on par with neutralizing antibody levels measured in those who had the Pfizer or Moderna shots. Further, T-cell levels (as measured by CD4+ and CD8+ stains) were actually higher in those with the J&J shot than the mRNA vaccines, however levels for all 3 were still extremely robust at the 8 month mark, continuing to reinforce that these vaccines may not keep you from getting infected over the long term, but will aggressively protect you against progression to severe disease.

When all is said and done, it will probably show that a mix and match prime/boost + boost strategy, mixing mRNA and the Ad26 vaccines will create a more broad based immune response and will be better than homogeneous shot regimens.

Here is the link to the paper in the New England Journal of medicine for those interested in the vaccine kinetics:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2115596?query=featured_home

 

What I mean is to Vax the elderly worldwide and those who want it first. Some countries are still trying to get the vaccine in large quantities. IF we did that we would’ve saved thousands and thousands of lives. I’m not saying natural immunity is lifelong since we don’t have that data yet. But it is lasting 12-18 months already. And the only thing I think is logical to count is hospitalizations and deaths. Can’t count just cases because of the false positives/negatives. The data in Israel shows 6-13 times the odds of being hospitalized for someone just with the vaccine as opposed to natural immunity. I got the vaccine not knowing if I have had Covid(I’ve never been tested). But my kids won’t get it until they are 18 or it becomes fully authorized. No need for the risk.

 

Dude, jump off CNN and MSNBC and you will find anyone who doesn’t have an agenda says natural immunity is superior to just the vaccine. Go look at the data. Sorry you are wrong. No debate.

 

I am not sure that if we used less vaccine here that would automatically mean more available elsewhere. It has never been exactly clear how protective natural immunity was, and at the time vaccinations were rolled out the information was limited. Plus given the fact that a percentage has remained hesitant , there has been no shortage of supplies here. Given the hesitance and delays in getting to herd immunity I think it is reasonable for those who want boosters to get them, or people who have some natural immunity to get them also.

The assertion that we could have tactically redirected vaccines world wide by bypassing those with natural immunity is just practically untrue. Having said that I have no issue with coming up with a science based protocol and definition for natural immunity as an exemption for the vaccine.

 

We knew about natural immunity a year ago before the vaccines were released. So it makes your argument moot.

 

Yeah I get conspiracists, anti-vaxer, kooky types won’t get it. But I was trying to get some useful info. However I see there is another thread on booster shots.

 

I don’t know this to be a fact, just like you don't know those with natural immunity will catch it every 16 months

 

Nor do many others. Everyone has different risk tolerances. Everyone has different risk profiles.

People can make educated decisions for themselves without others telling them they know more about their own life than they do.

Something tells me you are a booster up kind of risk tolerance. And your risk profile very well may be part of that reason. But many can also not live in ignorance of risk and/or the virus when deciding not to take one of these drugs.

 

Nearly 25% of covid recoverees have mental impairment 6 - 7 months after "recovery".
How many people would willingly admit that they are experiencing mental health chall

A study, published Friday in medical journal JAMA Network Open, says nearly a quarter of individuals who've been infected with the coronavirus have problems retaining information and focusing months after contracting the disease. Researchers, examining 740 patients at the Mount Sinai Health System in New York, found that it's relatively common for people who've had COVID-19 before to struggle with things like multitasking.

"In this study, we found a relatively high frequency of cognitive impairment several months after patients contracted COVID-19. Impairments in executive functioning, processing speed, category fluency, memory encoding, and recall were predominant among hospitalized patients," Jacqueline Becker and other researchers at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York said, according to the study.

The patients were tested between April 2020 and May 2021, the study says. They were all at least 18 years old and had no history of dementia. Researchers found that the patients, about seven or eight months after having contracted the disease, exhibited signs of cognitive impairment.

People who've had COVID-19 are facing memory problems months after contracting the disease, new study says: 'They can't think'

 

the problem with your approach is that the disease becomes endemic then. imagine if polio and smallpox were still endemic because people railed against vaccines for those diseases. your position is selfish and not in the best interests of the society you want to enjoy the benefits of. you, and yours, and al of us, have a social responsibility to the society to stop the spread of deadly infectious diseases

 

This disease is going to be endemic. That is just the most likely scenario based on the data. Booster up based on your risk profile and tolerances.

This thing is surging again in England with 85% of adults fully vaccinated. Just stop with these vaccines are going to eradicate this disease. They are not…

 

Seriously. Stop telling people to “live in fear,” as if that is the dichotomy. The arrogance of that statement is astounding. Hear it all the time. It is a mindless, unscientific insult from the right wingers. And if your parents’ experience with COVID was universal, we would all be OK. But it’s not. How sad that someone whose wife practices a healing art spreads such non-scientific QAnon type garbage. You have no understanding of natural immunities of Coronaviruses or how long they last. And your statements about staying healthy? Healthy people are getting very sick and dying, too. Why do you think we have large crowd events and an open economy now while the number of cases decline? Let’s hear it. Is it possible the vaccines are the reason? And Spare us your minimization of the disease. Your selfishness is evident in every post where it is always about how the decision affects the decision maker and never the larger community.

 

Yet, you stated it is fact, where as I simply referred you to data from one single paper without asserting its accuracy.

 

I do believe it to a fact, natural immunity is superior

 

That is a different statement entirely than this.

If you had said the above, I would have likely agreed with you that immunity from infection is much more broad based. It is still not well understand how long neutralizing antibodies will last, nor how durable the protection is. However, within the first year following infection, for those who did seroconvert, you statement is very defensible.

 

If it came to getting a vax every six months to reduce chance of infection, I'd do it, as long as there was no evidence of material side effects. I don't want to pass it on to my 85+ year old parents when visiting.

 

Makes sense to wait and see the numbers once it reaches the endemic phase. I don’t see how anyone can sit here and predict the future. Literally nobody knows shit about a year or more out. Does it settle out beneath the flu? Same as flu? 2x worse? 10x worse every year?

I’m definitely getting a booster shot when I’m due this time. Whether I see it as an annual shot year after year depends on how many people continue to get hospitalized and die, and how many people the vaccines are sparing hospitalization/death. How it compares to flu is probably a good benchmark for that.

 

Yeah! The heck with feeding those hungry people!