Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

So this is “I’ll take rampant speculation for $1,000 please Alex”. Got it.

 

the more we find out about "natural immunity" the murkier it gets. In some percentage of infections it doesnt come about at all. More and more it seems like the immunity is proportional to the severity of the infection. It does wane, and there are reinfection cases.

It has become clear that your strange fixation on it as the undisputed holy grail is not supported by all of the evidence.

 

It is the Holy Grail when it is compared to the vaccine by itself. Sorry to disappoint you and the others who refuse to see data after data point showing natural immunity is anywhere from 7-15 times better than the vaccine. We have had this data for a while now and we could’ve save thousands of lives all over the world by getting the vaccine to the elderly and those with underlying conditions first. There is nothing murky about natural immunity unless you have an agenda.

 

Actually was buying iced coffees for everyone at the office and $100 in gift cards…​

 

Kind of like all those who have had some vaccines and don’t get others. I don’t get the flu vaccine. As you said…”I am just not scared of” it.

People can make risk assessments accordingly. The best way to fight Covid is to be healthy and take care of yourself. But we are afraid to hurt peoples feelings so we rely on drugs to fix problems instead of taking care of ourselves. Mandating a person to take a drug for a disease that is not that dangerous to them is why this country is not the same one I grew up in.

We were just given another honest example that being overweight is not good. But too many prefer to shame healthy people or people with natural immunity because they are too lazy get healthy. Fat is not healthy.

Booster up/Vax up if you want. Don’t if you want.

But the best way to fight diseases (like Covid) and live life to its fullest…is to be healthy. Not take a new drug that needs boosters. Hopefully this is a wake up call for many. These new drugs should be considered for many. But there are many who do not need them. Especially with the other therapeutics out there now.

 

My parents had Covid in July of 2020. Still giving blood for antibodies (my mom right now can’t because she has some other antibody but she still has the Covid antibodies they want?). They have not taken one of these new drugs. They don’t need to. But booster up for all those who started taking these new drugs in 2021…

For the story on my parents experience…

My mom was going on a trip and had to test. Tested positive. Ended up hitting her pretty hard from a tiring standpoint. She was wiped for a good almost two weeks. My dad never tested for Covid (has antibodies) but we need he had it as he started to feel bad after my moms positive test and her showing symptoms. He was over it pretty quick. Would tell you he would prefer Covid over the Flu. I thought my mom would prefer Flu over Covid but she had a really bad Flu experience when she was younger. It surprised me but she also would prefer Covid over the Flu but I only was talking with her on the phone verse seeing her and I certainly did not know her Flu experience as I was not alive.

My dad at one point was going to get the vaccine. Retired and wanted to travel without issues. But as the data came out and he analyzed how governments were operating…he is now not going to touch it. My mom was more hesitant with the why do I need it but considering. She is not going to touch it at this point now.

The ignoring of Natural Immunity and Science is Palpable!

Take these drugs if you wish. Don’t take these drugs if you wish.

Take monoclonal antibodies if you need them. Vaccinated or Unvaccinated.

If you are unhealthy make the decision you need to make. If you are healthy make the decision you need to make.

 

My parents are living it up with Natural Immunity.

The data continues to build and show…they are more protected than all those vaccinate a half year or later after they had the disease getting boosters.

Booster Up!

 

No it's not rampant speculation to say that natural immunity likely wears off over time.

 

No, we don't know that. You found a few studies and took from them what you wanted to take to support your own agenda.

 

So now “a few studies” doesn’t mean anything anymore when it doesn’t fit your narrative. Thanks for clarifying.

 

Late reply but for information sakes you can get regeneron treatment prophylacticly and do not need to be positive. Its a shame more info about the regeneron treatments isn't being pushed as we are starting to close locations due to dwindling numbers

 

Perhaps I should change my avatar to "sound" more authoritative.

 

Actually death has the highest efficacy against reinfection. I'm surprised you aren't advocating for that.

 

I’m not advocating for people to not get vaccinated(except children). But if you can’t see how we rolled out the vaccine cost the world thousands of lives then there is no use having a conversation with someone who won’t look at the data.

 

I'm not a fan of your stance on unions as it is typically biased and ignores much of why they exist and what they do.

I don't have a problem with them getting publicity for community service but I agree this particular gesture is cringey as it pertains to the context of recebt events as well as this discussion.

I'm also beyond irritated at the vaccine hesitancy and party line stance wrought in the fire/ems/police/nurse communities in particular when a FF or Union speaks on "my behalf" regarding how unjust employer vaccine requirements are.

 

European unions - good

US unions - bad

Difference- EU unions goal is to work with management to create efficiency and training so company can be more profitable. US union mentality is us against them (management). Much like our politics these days. Tribal insteas of communal. It's ineffective and more costly for both parties that way

 

And if one, or both, had not survived, would you have wished they had gotten the vaccine? 700k + dead, likely that many or more left with lifelong conditions were not so lucky. It is a risk that isn't worth taking

 

Way too broad a brush still. I wonder how different European management is with their labor and how much that plays into things. That is for another discussion though.

 

No there are some studies out there that show natural immunity might be better than vaccine immunity. But that's not enough for you to make such absolute claims than natural immunity is 7 to 15 times better than vax immunity. There are still many unanswered questions, like how long does natural immunity last. And you have the bad habit of taking only what you want from a study and ignoring any disclaimers that don't support what you want to see. And you ignore any studies that don't support your narrative. So your claim of natural immunity being the 'gold standard' means nothing and has no credibility. That's just you flapping your gums and nobody is listening to you.

 

His whole basis of opinion is based on the Israeli study. The problem is each study is set up in a way that may favor one or the other.

AAAS

The study, conducted in one of the most highly COVID-19–vaccinated countries in the world, examined medical records of tens of thousands of Israelis, charting their infections, symptoms, and hospitalizations between 1 June and 14 August

The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus.

So in the Israeli study, they are comparing people vaccinated in Jan and Feb, to people who were previously infected during an undisclosed time span, and testing reinfection rates during the summer in the middle of Delta. Not shockingly natural immunity did better vs infection than 6-8 month old Pfizer vaccines that we know decreased efficacy over time. Still none of the participants in the study died from either group.

Now let's look at a study that loaded it the other way:

https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.amp...protection-natural-immunity-study-claims.html


Pfizer was 80% effective vs reinfection vs natural immunity 65%. But for Pfizer to be 80% vs infection we know that must have been within a couple of months after fully vaxed. The natural immunity could have been from infections going back farther perhaps into 2020.

Now heres a study that shows that natural immunity response varies significantly between recipients, with about a third showing no antibodies ( did not seroconvert)

Predictors of Nonseroconversion after SARS-CoV-2 Infection

Here is a very meaty article that among other things demonstrates that the level of natural immunity correlates with the severity of disease, and natural immunity tends to wane faster with asymptomatic disease vs mild disease, with severe providing longest.

DEFINE_ME

Finally, bottom line, getting the vaccine increases your level of protection even if you previously had disease

Coronavirus Disease 2019

The study of hundreds of Kentucky residents with previous infections through June 2021 found that those who were unvaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated. The findings suggest that among people who have had COVID-19 previously, getting fully vaccinated provides additional protection against reinfection.