Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

How do you explain the lack of data in the CDC reporting of covid deaths for Florida during the time after the state shut down their reporting portal?

 

CDC data showing the 85% of the "breakthrough" deaths, ie vaccinated who still died were 65 and older. The short story is poorly written but eventually spits out the 76% of all US COVID deaths are 65 and older (roughly 700,000 deaths). 85% of the vaccinated deaths are 65 and older (a total of 7000 people). This is not really new, as much as finally formally reviewed and published.

Chart: Covid breakthrough deaths among those 65 and older

 

Of course it matters, which is why both states did it. Also, I love how you complain about semantics, while you end with a purely semantic point to a substantive point that I made.

Javits nor the hospital ship opened until a month after the nursing home closures to outside people and well after the policy to send patients back to the nursing homes as well. Again, the issue is that the policy was not correctly done in that they assumed that nursing homes could isolate the patients, which was simply not possible.

 

There are some things DeSantis has done that I would have done differently. For one, I would not mandate what private businesses can and cannot do whether it be requiring masks or requiring vaccines. Same with school boards and masks although I think the whole mask thing is overblown on both sides. I am 100% in agreement with not shutting down businesses as some governors have done. On that DeSantis is right. From the beginning I have held the belief that if you didn't get the vaccine despite all the available evidence showing its efficacy and statistical safety then you have made your own personal (yet incorrect) decision and will have to live or die with that decision.

 

Can’t say this any clearer, the CDC gets their Covid data from NEDSS, not some internet website. The Times not knowing that is a joke. Stop quoting hatchet job articles would be my advice.

 

With COVID being the leading cause of death in the US for people 35-54, this article again shows the need to vaccinate everyone. If the majority of breakthrough cases are elderly, and almost all breakthrough deaths being among the elderly, the best way to protect this vulnerable population is to vaccinate. More people vaccinated, less breakthrough cases overall, less chance for an elderly person to come in contact with a contagious person.

And if you want to know why people are in favor of vaccine mandates, this is why. My parents and their siblings (my aunts and uncles) are all alive, and all between the ages of 75-88 years old. I'd like to be able to safely see them again, go out to restaurants with them again, and have large, family gatherings. As long as the virus is raging like it is, and the elderly, even fully vaccinated, are still at a relatively high risk, that's not going to happen.

But if everyone eligible was vaccinated, total cases go down. Total transmissions go down, and while the risk will never be zero, it will be close enough to be to truly get back to normal.

 

I agree for the most part. Though I think that part of what DeSantis is doing actually is in support of freedom knowing the federal government is forcing mandates on others. Really no way around saying you can't do this when the feds are saying you must do that. But I agree that I think it would be better for government to let people make their own decisions. End of the day...DeSantis's mandates are more on the side of protecting the individuals freedom. But there is definitely some hypocrisy in telling a business they cannot do something.

The way I handled a business with no one inside asking me to put a mask on was politely say that is alright I will go to the next business. I was about spend $150ish at a Dunkin Donuts a few months ago. They wanted me to put a mask on. I politely said that is okay. No hard feelings either way. Went to the Starbuck's down the road as this is more of which establishment are you at. Same thing. No hard feelings. Then went to Symmetry a local coffee shop and they gladly served me as they had a dining room full eating and conversing. Since...They have received the vast majority of my business for that kind of stuff. In fact my office manager just informed me that we need more of the gift certificates I purchased from them.

 

You do realize that the vaccine has not stopped cases from raging once the virus decides to virus. Some of the most vaccinated places in the country have seen the worst of Covid in their communities with a majority vaccinated.

This virus is terrible. But at the end of the day...if you are healthy. It is not that dangerous. Hopefully more people will finally see that reality and stop being lazy about their health.

 

This is simply not true. Vaccines stop transmission of the virus. Even Delta. According to the study, the AZ vaccine reduced transmission of Delta 36%, and the Pfizer vaccine, about 66%. You cannot get the AZ vaccine here in the states, but can get Pfizer.

The areas with high breakthrough case numbers are all areas approaching herd immunity. And the closer you get to herd immunity, the more breakthrough cases, per capita, you are going to have. It's an inverse relationship, that when you have 85% of the population vaccinated, you have a 5.6:1 vaxxed to unvaxxed population. So even 66% of cases are breakthroughs, even that that represents more overall cases, the reality is, the vaccine is working. If the vaccines weren't working, you'd have more like 80% of cases being breakthroughs.

And the reality is, even here, there is no location that has 50% breakthrough cases. Because the vaccines work at stopping infection for a good number of people. For those under 55, the vaccine is also an almost guaranteed life saver.

If we reached 90% of the total population vaccinated, we'd likely get to herd immunity, and all cases will drop. That's currently impossible right now for two reasons. One, kids under 12 aren't eligible. Something that will likely change soon. And two, the ~25% to 30% of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. These people will keep COVID circulating until we reach some sort of herd immunity between the vaccinated and those with natural immunity. And until we reach that goal, the elderly population is at greater risk. The vaccine? It's free to get, and maybe you feel poor for 48 hours max. The virus? Much, much worse.

 

You had me agreeing with a lot of what you said. But you neglected to discuss those with natural immunity and of course you are still on the bandwagon to vaccinate kids. That won't be FDA approved anytime soon. Gottlieb thinks it will be maybe next fall before the vaccine is fda approved for young kids. It's less dangerous than the flu for kids, so no need for the CDC to recommend an emergency authorization especially when a lot of Europe is stopping kids from being vaccinated because there is near zero risk for kids.

 

The decision for kids is still expected between Halloween and Thanksgiving. And the trial indicated the vaccine for kids will be approved.

Kids are vectors. They themselves are highly unlikely to get sick, and weren't significant factor in spreading the wild type of COVID. But Delta is different, replicates so fast, that kids now are likely to spread the virus. Kids are also part of the herd. If they are unvaccinated, there is a greater risk they spread the virus to elderly grandparents, great-grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. Vaccinated, that risk of spread from child to elderly is significantly decreased, if the child vaccine is equally effective as the adult version.

And I didn't completely leave out natural immunity. I did say that until we reach a point where the entire population has reached a herd level either through the vaccine or the virus itself, the virus will continue to spread. Natural immunity is a part of the equation, but considering, for adults, the vaccine effects versus the virus, nobody should choose the virus. Besides, the vaccinated are much less likely to spread the virus, which is why children should get the vaccine too. Herd immunity protects the most vulnerable.

 

I’ll take any bets that there won’t be full fda approval before Christmas. They will try to give EUA for kids, but most parents won’t get their kids vaccinated. No risk whatsoever and we don’t know long term effects of the vaccine on kids. There is a reason Europe isn’t vaccinating most kids. It’s not because they are trying to kill kids. They see the near zero risk. US is behind on this, same with masking kids. Playing politics unfortunately.

 

Nothing he ever says is true about Covid. It's a firehose of anti-vaxx disinformation.

 

A few Euro countries stopped giving the Moderna vaccine to kids 12 - 17 because of myocarditis risk. Interesting thing is, the risk of myocarditis in this age group if/when they contract COVID is higher than the risk from the vaccine. These countries are still giving Pfizer to the age group, which has an even lower risk of myocarditis than Moderna.

Currently, I couldn't find any countries who have approved any vaccine for anyone under 12. And again, it's not about personal risk. It's about community risk and spread. Children are part of the herd, and they can and do spread Delta. Vaccinate them, and that risk is greatly reduced.

By the way, nobody knows the long term effects of having COVID-19 either for kids? That argument always falls flat with me. Maybe the vaccine will cause problems five to ten years down the road? Maybe the virus will be even worse in this same time frame? Or maybe it will be nothing at all? Only time will tell.

 

Do you feel the same about all other vaccines? Why is covid different?

 

Maybe just quit posting this same inane shit again and again and again. We get it. You’re selfish. Just stop already.

 

Y’all gotta just block 95. I’m telling you it’s glorious. He needs your attention like a flame needs oxygen. Just deprive him of what he needs.

 

I generally agree with that. I'd slightly disagree with your last point is not getting vaxed not only affects you, it affects others you spread it to and puts additional strain on the health care system (which you know better than anybody)

I have some sympathy for not going full Katy bar the door shutdown mode. But at a minimum that should be a choice of the community. These laws that prohibit localities, businesses and schools from taking measures they see fit are not only harmful, they aren't libertarian and they aren't conservative. They are measures to delight the morons who walk among us.

 

I don’t block anyone. But I choose who I respond to.

 

Fair. I don’t have the self control.