Border Wall

Lol, and it is pretty clear you read none of them. China spent most of the time after the wall was built being ruled by people from north of the wall after they invaded south of the wall.

 

you seem to be confusing a military army with a mom carrying a baby. Do you need me to draw you a stick figure drawing? Invading Armies will build mechanisms to defeat walls, castles, moats, etc. That does not mean they are ineffective against civilians, especially against those who walk across the desert. Compare apples to apples.

I have relatives from and currently living in China. I have visited the wall with them, have you visited the wall? I have read several books about Chinese history. Have you? I don’t pretend to be an expert on China? Do you?

The Great Wall has lasted for 3000 years. So I assume it has done its job more than it has failed.

Did the Great Wall actually succeed in keeping enemies outside China’s borders? The short answer: yes, the Great Wall was successful in keeping semi-nomadic invaders out, which was the primary concern at the time. However, the wall did not stop some large scale invasions, and even the nomadic people were able to breach the wall from time to time.

Was The Great Wall of China Actually Effective?
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As I said previously…was it perfect? Nope. But it kept most people out. If we have the Mexican army trying to invade our southern border, I think we will depend upon more than a wall to repel them. But that is not what we are talking about here, is it?

Try harder to focus.

 

No, you seem to be confusing those two things. You were the one who chose to use that example, not me.

Lol! You chose this comparison, not me. You brought up two walls with very different purposes. Why did you choose to do that if you now want to pull that comparison back?

I have not visited the wall (although I am not sure how that teaches us about the effectiveness of a wall). I have read "several" books about Chinese history as well. I don't claim to be an expert on China, just somebody who knows some of the history, including the fact that the people south of the wall built a wall to stop invasions of people from north of the wall and ended up being ruled by people from north of the wall most of the time after that happened.

Not in its current form (or something even vaguely resembling it). Most of the wall was constructed by the Ming dynasty. The Ming dynasty fell when they were invaded by people from north of the wall. And different walls have been around for 3,000 years, but the first really large-scale wall started in 221 BC after unification (prior to that, it was largely earthen or wooden). Multiple dynasties (most famously, the Mongolians and Manchurians) ruled most of the area South of the wall after this stage in construction. The Manchurians did it after the construction of its current form.

No, we are talking about people who walked through thousands of miles of hostile territory being deterred by something that can be defeated with any of a number of relatively cheap objects that can be bought at any hardware store.

And no, it was never really successful in stopping raiding activity or invasion activity (or migration, it should be noted).

 

I didn’t bring up a military invasion, you did. We don’t have a military invasion in Texas. We have mostly moms, kids and drug mules. They don’t have Ace Hardwares in the desert to get supplies to build a Trojan horse. Sure, some people will be more sophisticated and use devices to try and beat the wall, but that is why the wall has to be monitored and maned. Our boarder agents should be able to use all force necessary, including as a last resort lethal force to prevent unauthorized entry. we need to catch and destroy all the equipment of the coyotes bringing these across our border.

But a proper wall will stop most people and slow down the really determined ones. We just need to have the fortitude to build it and enforce our laws. Barriers have been used to keep people in and out since the beginning of time. Suggesting that barriers will not work on the southern border is ludicrous. We just have not done it yet. A partial wall is like building a house with two walls and no roof. It’s not a house.

 

i’ve heard many people say, make this ridiculous argument. You lack any semblance of common sense by asserting such a ridiculous analogy. If we are to follow your logic, then you shouldn’t lock your front door, because anyone can go to a hardware store to get what is necessary to get into your house. Hell, you don’t even have to go to a hardware store. If I want to get into your house, I’ll just drive my car through your front door. With your logic, because of that, having door locks is futile. That’s not the way the world works.

 

You brought up a wall that you now claim is different because it had a different purpose. You did so unprompted. Sorry, that is on you.

Hmm, so all those times you called it an invasion, you weren't telling the truth? Okay then.

Lol, you think they don't have hardware stores in border towns in Mexico? I'm pretty sure they do.

Yeah, that is going to go well. Let me know when you figure out how to stop human ingenuity, especially when driven by profit. The reason that we won't ever win the drug war as well, by the way.

But no, we don't kill people for breaking the law in a way that doesn't immediately endanger other people. Because we are a fundamentally decent society. Save that sort of stuff for your friends in East Germany.

Interestingly, you realize that the walls you advocated were not "complete" walls either, right? People in East Germany weren't all in Berlin. The Great Wall never covered the entirety of the border. In fact, you would struggle to find a large scale wall that was ever a "complete wall." Largely because, to use your words, a country isn't a house either.

 

Honestly, the only reason locks work is because somebody trying to break into your house has no reason to think that your house is different than the other 10,000 houses they could break into. It is little more than a nudge. Heck, you probably have a window right next to your locks and breaking up your walls. People can pretty easily break a window and climb into your house. They don't because...they don't want your stuff in particular.

But, again, a house isn't a country. And an immigrant isn't somebody trying to rob you of stuff. But if a bunch of people decide that they really want your stuff, they are getting it, with or without your locks and walls. They just don't because your house has "competition," if you think of it like that.

 

In one post, you admit we have lots of women and children coming across. In this post, you say our agents should be able to use deadly force to stop them. I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of Doli Incampax, which translates into inability to do harm. This is especially true of the kids you say are coming over. Many are at to young to understand what is going on, are incapable of doing harm, and by law, are committing no crimes.

Kill them, and that's murder. No other way around it. So would killing anyone seeking asylum, which isn't illegal, or killing anyone overstaying a visa, which is a misdemeanor. Do we really want to be a country that murders people like this? I don't.

Maybe we would accomplish what you ultimately wants if you do this, however. That's because we would become a sh!thole country just as bad as those the immigrants are trying to escape. Do that, and the immigrants are less likely to want to come. But turning our country into a sh!thole is not a good solution.

 

you have a rather distorted sense of reading comprehension and reality. You also are clearly clueless on what makes a sovereign nation, and God help anyone who looks to you for safety and protection. “Sorry honey, let them steal your mother’s China, they already came through our unlocked door, we can’t do anything now”

Please don’t have children.

 

You have va distorted sense of reality if you think it's equally easy to secure a 2000 mile border as it is a single family residence. The Berlin Wall was less than 100 miles long and had hundreds of guards or more posted 24/7. You propose we do the same at our border? And kill innocent, unarmed women and children if they try to cross?

 

LOL. The police couldn’t knock down my door if they tried, so it’s unlikely that any thief would stand a chance. And it would take someone 20 minutes with a sledge hammer to get into any of my windows. And if my dogs didn’t get them first, let’s just say the lead poisoning might leave a mark.

you keep being a victim and leave the rest of us to enjoy our freedom.

BTW- the illegal immigrants rob all of us of our taxes. About $150 billion a year. I would rather that money stay in my pocket so I can buy more ammo.

 

I would never advocate killing innocent women and children.

nowhere did I say that securing the border would be easy. Nothing worthwhile is easy.

 

no one crossing the border illegally is seeking asylum. If you are seeking asylum you go in the front door and request asylum. I’m not sure why this concept is so difficult for you and others to understand.

protecting your borders is not turning your country into a shit hole. That is just laughable.

 

You are incapable of discussions without insults. It is sad. Deal with your own stuff, and stop acting like it is everybody else's problem.

 

That sounds paranoid and more than a little sad. You really sound terrified of your own shadow.

Never been a "victim." You use your freedom to live in a bunker? Your choice, but wow...

No, they really don't. They do jobs, have kids, spend money. You know what people do. You really need to get outside of your bunker more.

 

Are you the kettle or the coffee…I forgot

 

I'd be happy to discuss this without insults. You aren't capable. As evidence by the multitude of insults that you have fired off (not even counting the ones on this thread that have been edited out).

 

I don’t live in a bunker. I live in a beautiful new house. I have a steel door encased in a steel frame. You can buy them at Home Depot if you want. My windows are filmed because I had a tree fly through one 6 years ago in a hurricane. Now I’m hurricane proof. You still need to try harder.

Educate yourself on the net costs of illegal immigration. You’re wrong again.

 

You fire your mouth at me and because I respond in kind you now accuse me of insulting you. That’s rich.

 

Yeah, I am sure that is how you square it in your mind. But it isn't reality.